Childcare is not a dumping ground for the unemployable

I've seen this claimed in many reputable publications but can you or anyone else tell me what it actually means? That £23 billion worth of benefits went unclaimed? I don't understand how that can be true at the same time that there's not enough money for even the most disabled people and the country being in dire straits because of it. This does seem to be something all the major parties now agree on. I'm on disability benefits myself but get a pittance so I'm just trying to understand.

We leave our most vulnerable people - little ones and the elderly to be cared for by those who are not paid enough to give a shit or educated enough to know. It’s abominable.

People gloating about playing the system proves nothing. Investigations into benefits fraud found that PIP has a fraud rate of... 0% in the financial year of 2024. Also in 2024, £23billion worth of benefits went unclaimed!

Some people do play the system of course, but it's such a tiny, tiny amount.

Childcare and beauty courses were the two options foisted on girls from the poorer areas in my school at that time, regardless of intelligence or, well, anything really.

“It's just not that simple.”

As someone who is ND and deals with chronic conditions (and works full time) I’m well aware of that.

Coming from west coast Scotland, I do believe there are too many people claiming benefits for no good reason. I don’t just believe it btw, I know it as they proudly boast about it. Some of them people I grew up with who now live in Wetherspoons and the including at least one man who does it to stick it to their ex as they now can’t get child support from them - vile. This isn’t daily mail stories, this is real life.

My problem with the current approach is that predictably the ones kicked off disability first will be the more vulnerable ones, as opposed to the more savvy alert ones who are really gaming the system and will continue to receive it so they don’t kick off. The ones that OP describe are seen as more easy targets tbh. It’s very sad.

I'm talking about people who are now being forced off benefits and into work.

In my line of work I've supported dozens of disabled people successfully in their jobs; I know many disabled people can work and enjoy doing so.

But there is a pervasive and dangerous rhetoric (exemplified in a lot of the comments on this thread) that if a person can get themselves up and out of the house, they can work. It's just not that simple.

Care experienced people are guaranteed an interview.

I didn’t say anyone could do those jobs. I’m saying I know some people who sound a bit similar to the folk Op describes seemed to get along fine in those roles that I’ve also personally worked in. Not everyone can do those jobs but some people can and are mighty grateful to be able to have jobs after being written off by many.

A kid I grew up that went to a special school with absolutely loved his job sorting out the trolleys at our local Tesco and it got him out interacting with more people.

I heard years later he is now a kitchen assistant and very proud to bring money home for him and his partner. Again to be clear I didn’t say everyone could do it, but some people can and are better off doing so than being forever at home on benefits.

Also, work coaching? Access to Work, the government scheme that facilitates and funds support workers in the workplace, is in an absolute shambles with wait times of months, and is likely to be defunded soon to be honest. You can only apply for ATW once you're employed, leaving employed disabled people without support for weeks if not months

Not surprised to hear that as so many of our public services are in shambles, but my point is that is what SHOULD happen. I’m not necessarily saying that help is currently freely available now. I hope things improve on that front.

You are making a very valid point. Many childcare workers are complete useless and a bloody waste of space.

I had a colleague like this. She thought she got the job but actually was the only applicant who didn’t turn it down.

She refused to answer the phone, read stories, do any paperwork, sing, almost anything.
She left her charges sitting in poo for hours rather than change them.
She lied constantly when challenged. Blamed students when she had fed children the wrong lunches.
She cried loudly when I had to tell her to stop eating from the babies spoons. Said I bullied her. Said everyone bullied her.
She stole anything not nailed down.
She argued about everything. Everything. It was the only thing she put any effort into.

The manager, appealed to, told me I could train her.

I left nursery work. I was sorry for the children but after two years of her I couldn’t bear it any more.

It is so exasperating that people who hold the "get them into work" opinion have no actual insight into the realities.

I'm a supported employment worker - I support disabled people in work. "Warehouse work, cleaning and retail"... what do you think these jobs actually entail? It's not just a case of a person rocking up at the premises, being shown patiently what to do and them doing it forever.

You don't understand the complexities of many disabilities, nor the many levels involved in finding work that is truly sustainable and doable for a person, which ALSO meets the needs of the business. And that's fine, why would you? But please think twice before espousing that "anyone could do this job", because it's not true. I know from over a decade of experience that there is so much more to these "easy" jobs than most people would assume, and reading & writing, being able to communicate, use technology and adapt to increasing demands is the absolute bare, bare minimum.

Also, work coaching? Access to Work, the government scheme that facilitates and funds support workers in the workplace, is in an absolute shambles with wait times of months, and is likely to be defunded soon to be honest. You can only apply for ATW once you're employed, leaving employed disabled people without support for weeks if not months.

There are huge swathes of disabled people in a horrible grey area at the moment of being capable of getting out of bed and out of the house but not having the ability to consistently, reliably and independently work. And they're being ignored, disbelieved and dismissed, their benefits (their lifeline) taken away, and forced into unsuitable work which demoralises and impoverishes them, and also puts businesses into difficult positions when staff can't meet the business needs.

I wish people wouldn't be so quick to get digs in at unemployed disabled people because their situations are usually so complex. We need to start believing disabled people and their caregivers and not assuming everyone is some sort of scrounger.

I think they shouldn’t be working with vulnerable children or adults but they could find some type of work for them maybe alongside some work coaching.

off the top of my head Warehouse work, cleaning, and retail (maybe shelf stacking or stockroom) would be more suitable for them. I have worked in all those roles and there were people like the OP describes who worked in them fine.

Reminds me of this thread, about a disabled person who did indeed get a job perfectly suited to her needs, and at which she excelled – indeed outshone her colleagues.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/4522777-Hired-a-disabled-woman-in-lockdown-who-I-now-have-to-fire?page=1

I feel the post on page 7, saying that the company had done the woman a disservice employing her at all, is particularly enlightening...

Facepalm.

Illiteracy is a huge issue and will also be a barrier to training and accessing technology which are fundamental to virtually all employment, even "factory work" and cleaning - an ability to differentiate cleaning chemicals etc is basic H&S.

Also, you do know that "factory work" is becoming more automated, and since we have precious little in terms of homegrown industry, these jobs aren't ten a penny.

Better questions to ask is why there is illiteracy on the alleged scale mentioned here. Could it perchance be down to dyslexia, falling through the educational cracks, other learning disabilities etc? Lack of SEND provision? I wonder if perhaps proper education and training for those with significant challenges could be addressed before the poor sods are parachuted into unsuitable working conditions causing issues for them, their beleaguered colleagues and those who pay for and expecting a certain standard in caring environments, just to appease the baying mobs of tax payers?

I swear to God this "civilised" country is regressing at dangerous speed in every direction.....

On the one hand we shouldn't write people off, as we have plenty of understanding of the challenges faced by those who struggle with mainstream education for whatever reason, and we should support the levelling of the playing field somewhat and value them in an inclusive society. On the other hand, we cut provision to the bone, leave kids hanging for ridiculous amounts of time which benefits no-one, especially not these youngsters, whinge about how much they're "costing" and they end up adrift and state dependent, because they end up trying to work in unsuitable environments and falling flat.

The level of madness inherent in current policy because profit is valued above all else, is absolutely mind boggling.

my teen dd who attends college has said the majority of teens her age that have recently dropped out of college are now working in nurseries. apparently according to dd drop outs either end up working in mcdonalds or a nursery. her words not mine before anyone jumps on me. so I agree that care work, be it nursery or elderly care is so shockingly under valued that it's become a dumping ground for drop outs and the unemployable.

But it's all very well talking about this in theory, that people who can get themselves up and out of the house "should be" working, at a job that suits them and their specific needs... but where are these jobs? What job actually exists that simply entails getting out of the house and arriving somewhere? There isn't one!!

I've done a wide range of jobs in my life and nowadays, even "menial" shop work isn't simple. For example, shop floor staff in a supermarket no longer simply restock shelves. They're also expected to do ad hoc cleaning, pick items from shelves for online orders, hop on tills when needed, use complicated handsets.

We have to get real, the work just isn't out there that suits the needs of many disabled people AND meets the needs of businesses and organisations today.

I don't say "all" - I'm specifically referring to the section of people who have erstwhile been claiming benefits because they can't work, now being forced into work.

This is a strawman. You wouldn’t say ‘they have to work as totally unqualified neurosurgeons because the alternative is being called benefit scroungers’.They don’t need to work in positions where they are caring for the absolutely most vulnerable in society - young children and babies. There are other jobs they could do, perhaps not well, but where failure doesn’t risk someone’s life.

This is just another example of writing-off work that is seen as ‘woman’s work’. Women bring up children for ‘free’ so it is giving no value.

I'd imagine they need to have training and qualifications, even if it's level 2 only?
It seems a bit of a sweeping statement to claim everyone who goes into childcare is unemployable. You must just have bad luck at your provider.
I guess not everyone had twenty grand a year to spend on training to become a Norland Nanny?
The ones you say haven't worked since they were in their 20s, maybe they brought up children after that? So that should give some experience you'd hope.

That may be a reflection of how little you do when you get to your workplace, that actually arriving there is the most taxing part of your day, but every job I've ever done we were expected to actually be productive after we arrived...

I support disabled people working. My objection is to people who call them “unemployable” when they clearly are employable and employed. I believe in an inclusive society.

Being illiterate shouldn’t exclude them from working. But it certainly should exclude them from working with children in a capacity where they’re teaching them. They could do manual jobs, such as factory work, where literacy may not be a requirement. But they shouldn’t be classed as ‘disabled’ and be allowed to opt out of working fgs.

See also "The unemployed should be made to do 'voluntary' work for the old and disabled."

Noooo!

If they're honest & competent, I'll happily pay them proper wages (or go through some organisation which can).

If they're not honest and competent, I don't want them on my premises.

I'm not compos mentis enough or mobile enough to run round after them checking they haven't done something stupid or riffled through my drawers or picked up my laptop when I've left a banking window open. If I were well enough to supervise marauding groups of scallies... I'd be doing it as a job and being paid myself. And even then I wouldn't let them in my home.

Well tbh if they’re actually in the workplace, even though they aren’t suitable for that particular job, clearly they’re able to do something if they physically get themselves there. Are you suggesting that they should be sat at home on benefits rather than out doing some type of work?

that's terrifying
no way would I want someone like that caring for my child or elderly relative!
Full of respect for genuine carers and childcare workers. Their jobs are very difficult.

Everywhere is a dumping ground, not just in your line of work.