Are antidepressants warranted in this scenario?

It wasn't that that I was commenting on! 😂

You have every right to disagree with me. As I have every right to disagree with you.

Isn't that what debate is?

traumatic experiences can result in neurological ie biological changes which, to me, suggests that biological approaches may be helpful. Alongside psychological and social approaches.

Absolutely this.

Absolutely happy to discuss the trauma informed model of mental health - and I absolutely agree that some mental health related symptoms can be caused by trauma for some individuals. I would also agree that addressing trauma can help / resolve some mental health problems.

What I don't agree with - and what you seem to be saying - is that all mental health symptoms are caused by trauma, and the only treatment approach should be addressing trauma. Apart from anything else, traumatic experiences can result in neurological ie biological changes which, to me, suggests that biological approaches may be helpful. Alongside psychological and social approaches.

As do you think that model is the only way. As is your right.

Sorry but the trauma informed model is allowed to be discussed and saying that only the model is allowed not supportive of all.

Maybe step away from debating if you find people with other research distressing. I shouldn't have to be silent on research because someone is upset. I could say you are triggering me and then where would we be? No one can talk at all?

I can help with this - please send me a message

@whippy1981 Please be aware that your comments are really quite distressing for me - and potentially others - to read. I have had a couple of fairly long admissions to psychiatric hospitals due to a diagnosis of depression which left me unable to eat, believing I was evil and could hurt people, not able to concentrate enough to read anything and a number of other symptoms. Unlike your experience, there was no clear history of trauma to trigger this. I also experienced significant improvement as a result of biological treatments, whilst also engaging in psychological treatments. I think the biopsychosocial model of mental illness is probably most likely - it's very complex. I think psychological and social factors are hugely important but also think there is a biological element. Which would fit with the evidence suggesting that biological treatments such as antidepressants are more effective than placebo pills in helping people feel better.

Reading your comments that all mental health problems are due to trauma reawakens feelings that I was somehow responsible for / imagining all my problems. You seem very certain that your way of thinking is the only way.

How does agreeing to disagree prove you “correct” 🤣🤣

There is - maybe do some research instead of accepting things blindly.

Also says it all when you saying my posts are scrambled. Proving my point entirely. Thank you for scoring that own goal! Couldn't have walked into that one in a finer fashion!

How humiliating for you to prove me correct in such a spectacular way! Well done.

It would sting if I thought there was any substance in what youre saying, but there’s just huge amounts of projection, an absence of empathy and an absence of logic. So it doesn’t “sting” - your posts are becoming more scrambled and that isn’t conducive to a sensible discussion. I like sensible, intelligent discussions and I have partaken in whatever this is for long enough, it’s boring me now.

Nope you didn't lose me. I responded to you but sadly you didn't like me agreeing with you and that kind of stung a bit didn't it?

Nope I haven't and yet here you are doing just that! Irony!

My belief is that everyone can follow whichever model they believe in:

You believe in the medical model
I believe in the trauma informed model.
Some believe in the genetic model
Some believe in the social model etc.

So nope I am not giving me authority and have clearly said that further up the thread which you clearly ignored. I am however, entitled to talk about that model of mental health. Just because you never actually read around the different models and research into them all and believed a common myth then that is on you not me.

Do you say that to others who believe in the medical model and bleat on about a chemical imbalance that was debunked decades ago? I bet you do not, if not, why not?

I also mentioned up thread I’ve been raped but carry on like that gives you ultimate authority over the interpretation of absolutely everyone’s mental health. 👏🏻

I can see I’ve lost you now - because you’ve totally misread what I’ve written and continued on your own personal tangent. Have a good day.

Nope they are not experiences - what you would call depression I would call a response to an experience. However people do experience a response so it is both a response to an experience and an experience itself.

Nope by abnormal I mean labelling someone abnormal and 'disordered'. It isn't abnormal.

Would you put a plaster on your finger if there was no cut and no bleeding? So why do we do that with the brain? Try and put a plaster on something that isn't there?

So you think being excited for Disneyland is a problem and a disorder? Why have I used this as this is the same as any other response - it is a response to something they experienced. Why would you want kids to stop being excited for Disneyland?

No one said depression is feeling sad on a rainy day. By all means if you think that crack on. I believe what you would call depression as being an extended period of feeling low. Such as if you live in poverty day in day out. So we agree on what it is - I just do not think it is abnormal whereas you do. I think it is normal.

You mean I addressed it in that I got someone to say the rape wasn't an issue it was my brain that was at fault and the rape just coincided with the brain issue coming out? In the way that Drs do and then pretend the event isn't the issue but the brain is? Keeps you looking towards yourself as the problem and not people looking at the problem in society such as rape eh? Blame the women for being raped not the rapist? Nice!

Depression and anxiety are both experiences? I don’t believe they’re abnormal. But you do not need to be irrational (which is what I think you mean by abnormal) to require treatment.

So you’re saying if it’s a rational response it doesn’t warrant treating? Or that’s not what you’re saying?

Bleeding is a normal reaction to a cut - you still treat it.

Excitement is just a heightened emotion - If children were excited or had such heightened emotions all the time it would be an issue, yes. Because it would interfere with their ability to function, like learning and their everyday life. Why have you used that as an example?

Depression isn’t feeling sad on a rainy day or because your trip to Disney is over - it’s an extended period of feeling low, which is interfering with your everyday life.

Your trauma was only problematic because it was subsisting, if you just felt a fleeting moment of trauma you wouldn’t have needed to address it.

I am saying that of course people suffer with what you call depression and anxiety but I just think that they are not conditions just normal reactions to situations. I do not believe in calling someone abnormal or saying to someone who for example was robbed at gun point and was distressed after that the robbery wasn't the issue and their distress came from an issue in their brain not the robbery and that they are abnormal. I do not believe it is abnormal. You can do?

I never had brain scans I don't need any as there is no diagnosis. Trauma is something you experience, such as poverty, rape etc. It is an experience. So no brain scan would show up a 'raped' part of my brain as that isn't a thing.

How did I know rape existed. I felt the penis inside me and was conscious throughout.

Would you pathologise being excited for say going to Disneyland? Do kids have 'jumpy disorder' when excited and need treating to stop it?

So you’re saying depression and anxiety doesn’t exist? But you have suffered trauma yourself? What did your brain scans show re trauma? How do you know it existed?

I would treat a broken leg because an xray would prove it was a broken leg.

Nope I am saying because there is nothing for the AD to treat.

Why would you treat a response to AD with more medication?

So would you not treat a broken leg because the brain doesn’t display a reaction? Because you’re essentially say that because we can’t see the brains response to AD’s we shouldn’t treat it 🤔

I am not disputing that. Of course people display reactions I've not said that isn't the case.

A reaction isn't a biological marker.

A reaction to a broken leg is to cry - that isn't the pathology of a broken leg if you get what I mean?

panic attacks have a physical response and so does anxiety? So although there’s no evidence it’s a “brain condition” it still has physical markers.

There is no brain chemistry issue. It has been proven not to exist.

Schizophrenia used to be called 'black man's disorder'. The history of this condition is very interesting and certainly it has come from drapetomania - which was a mental health condition which made black slaves run away from white owners. It means 'runaway slave mania'. In the past they treated drapetomania with physical punishment. Then there was 'protest psychosis' which was a condition which was all about those who protest about things such as civil rights are suffering from a psychosis called protest psychosis. This was then added to the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia. And schizophrenia developed along these lines that people who were black, aggressive and angry suffered from this condition. Thus you could diagnose anyone who marched in civil rights protests against white oppression. Convenient eh?

In the past they used this same stigma to then forcibly sterilise black women. 85% of all black women sterilised were labelled with a mental health condition borne from this diagnosis. Today 90% of all psychiatric care beds in the USA are in prisons. Guess who disproportionately populates those beds with schizophrenia diagnosis? So yes this diagnosis has a very clear history to show it was borne from stigma and oppression which still continues today. Being black is not abnormal. Being angry about being oppressed and standing up for wanting rights is normal. Who wanted to label such individuals as mental to justify locking them up and abusing them?

Dementia is not a mental illness.

HRTFT but my experience of ADs was that they stabilised my mood, but didn’t help me to feel better. I found yoga very effective at making me better, personally. But the ADs help to lift you enough to get to a point that you can engage with therapy or yoga or rock climbing or art or whatever, to actually change your brain chemistry/responses and feel better in the longer term.

The same could be said about schizophrenia or Alzheimer’s. Do you think they have also been created out of stigma and aren’t medical conditions?