Close friends / relatives that you thought would love your child - just have no interest…

Don't let it bother you. Not everyone is interested in other people's children...... become closer to those who are.

By encouragement I mean creating a society where women are supported to be mothers IF they choose to. I talked about choice multiple times in all my posts and the legitimacy of choosing not to for whatever reason.

However, at the moment the cost of living crisis, sky high nursery and housing costs and full time, often inflexible working patterns, means motherhood is on track to be a choice for only the very wealthy and privileged and that is not the basis for a fair and equitable society.

You said young women should be encouraged to be mothers. I feel that's boxing them into a restrictive role and promoting the idea that their purpose in life is tied to their reproductive ability.

I don't think "lifestyle choice" and "hobby" are trivialising words. Choosing your lifestyle is the most important thing you can do for yourself in the one life you have. But the fact remains that people who become parents choose to do so, and that entails choosing the lifestyle that goes with it. And it is as all-encompassing and life-defining as someone who chooses to devote their life to sculpture, or triathlons, or flute-playing. And it's no more or less trivial than those things.

gannett
Oh pack it in, that's a completely disingenuous interpretation of what I said. Creating a world where women feel supported to be mothers if they choose it and children are valued is not the handmaid's tale - it's the complete opposite.

And I would absolutely agree the climate and refugee crisis, the discrimination and oppression of women and girls and the perilous state of the world generally are all massive factors in women choosing not to procreate. I don't blame any woman for making the choice not to - it's a completely rational decision.

But we are getting further from the original point. The point I was making is, that whatever your reasons for having children or not - whether there are a million legitimate reasons or not, having children doesn't fit the categorisation of lifestyle choice or hobby despite your attempts to trivialize it.

This 100%.

The thing is, the only reason there is music and art and all these other amazing (and worthwhile) activities is because humans exist to create them. You have every right to choose not to have kids and dedicate your life to these things or any other 'hobby', profession or cause and that's a completely legitimate choice but you only exist because your parents didn't make that choice.

This is something that is often said to the childfree by choice - “if your parents had thought like you, you wouldn’t be here”. There are any number of reasons I might never have existed. My parents might never have met, the egg and sperm that made me might never have met, my mother might have decided she was one and done, my mother might have miscarried me. I can’t say that the thought that I might never have existed keeps me awake at night.

Yes I understand how you feel.
For us it was with ‘close’ family, so I think that’s even worse.

The only reason war, torture, oppression and the overall pillage of the planet exist is because humans exist as well. I'm neutral at best on the propagation of the species and in humanity's survival and certainly have no emotional investment in it. And as you admit, not a single parent has kids altruistically anyway.

I believe in society, and I believe the societal priority is what exists here and now. If the "societal level" is something you're concerned about, I would suggest helping actual people in need - or nature, or the planet - is more of an overwhelming priority than creating new ones. Volunteering to help with refugees or work towards climate change solutions or stand with oppressed people is more important on a "societal level" than settling down to have 2 kids in a suburban bubble.

As for your little Handmaid's Tale suggestion about women being encouraged to be broodmares... I shudder. The human species is in no danger of dying out. It's a non-concern. Having fewer children overall would be better for the planet (and thus humanity, if that bothers you).

I have a really good friend with two small grandchildren, 4 and 2 and one on the way. When the children are at my friend's house I don't go. I wish them nothing but good things but they aren't mine so there's no link.
Small children are noisy and disruptive (again, I mean no harm) if they're yours and you love them, brilliant. I don't want to play with small children, neither does your friend. She's not in the zone at the moment.

100% agree. It also accounts for the loneliness epidemic amongst elderly people.

This is so true!

Have you been available to her as a friend without your child?

As a child free person it can become very frustrating when you’re constantly trying to make plans with a friend and they bring along their child every time or that they become flaky and cancel a lot using the child as a reason. Also you may be talking about your child alot every time you meet up and she finds that she can’t get conversation out of you about anything else?

It may sound harsh but as a child free person that’s a real perspective and reality so could be a reason.

When a friend has a child I'm extra concerned about how her: how she's finding motherhood, is she well, is she worried, is she happy. I'm delighted to meet a new baby and it's quite nice to see the children as they grow. I hope very much that they are healthy and content, but I can't honestly say I love them.
But in your case OP I think it's more that your friendship with this woman has faded to something more like acquaintanceship. If you're bothered about someone, you are bothered about the big events in their life.

I'm not sure that the propagation of the species sits in the same category as stamp collecting or calligraphy 😄

The thing is, the only reason there is music and art and all these other amazing (and worthwhile) activities is because humans exist to create them. You have every right to choose not to have kids and dedicate your life to these things or any other 'hobby', profession or cause and that's a completely legitimate choice but you only exist because your parents didn't make that choice.

So having children is not the same as any other lifestyle choice - it's a fundamental to a functioning society which all other choices flow from Everything you enjoy doing as a childfree person, or I do as a parent, is only possible because we and other humans exist - someone needed to do the reproductive labour to achieve this.

Before anyone says it - this doesn't mean that I think anyone has children altruistically - it's always a personal and self-centered decision on an individual level - but on a societal level it is a necessary one. There's no getting away from the fact that society needs to be set up in a way that encourages the majority of females to want to have a couple of kids in order to keep the population stable and society functioning. When something is this necessary and fundamental to humanity's survival it can't fit into the same category as a hobby.

(Having said all that, I completely respect the decision not to have kids, for whatever reason and I'm thankful we live in a society where women get to choose, fertility issues aside).

I'm surprised by some of the responses. I'm particularly fond of some children of my friends. I send cards, present and money to around 7 children. In my circle it's the done thing. I even (shock) love some of them, like nieces and nephews.

Mine is below 10yrs old and I find 5 yr olds and younger irritating. Can’t imagine if I hadn’t had a small child for yrs to want to put up with any of it 🤣

The some reason may be your kid. Before I had a DC I had no concept of working around nap schedule, how tired a parent may be to go for a dinner at 8pm, etc so I distanced myself from my friends with kids as I couldn’t (and didn’t want to as I only had so much time after a demanding work day) relate to them any more.

I have children and no I don't expect my friends to take an interest in my kids, I take minimal interest on theirs.

I find some of my friends kids a pain in the ass because they keep shoving them into our meet ups or get together over wine. I have no interest at all in them. I will be polite but I'm not going to gush

Its not unreasonable to expect close friends to send bday cards etc. My eldest is 31 and my 3 close ex school mates all still send him a card. I do the same for their children. No I don’t love them, but I care about them. Friends closer to my eldest than I am to theirs as he was born when we were all 16, so they had much more involvement than usual I guess. But they still send cards to my other 2 DC.

Your child is the centre of your world. That doesn’t mean everybody else shares the same view.

People who have their own children don’t generally care that much about other people’s kids (past polite chit chat etc) so considering she’s childfree by choice of course she isn’t showing much interest.

Youre expecting too much.

I have adult dc and I find small children really boring and irritating.

I was also the first of my friends to have children and had the same experience.
Years later I have great freedom not having to carry that extra mental load. We are still friends but it’s a child free zone, except for the big stuff.

I could not have children of my own and there was no sign of DB having any either until he suddenly met someone and became a dad at the age of 50. So having a nephew is a wonderful bonus.

My best friend was first to have a child when we were mid twenties - rest of us waited until 30s. Honestly I was probably a crap friend as literally had zero interest in her child. Honestly haven’t really that much interest in any of the kids now! Nice to see updated how they are getting on etc but honestly when I see my friends other than a quick update on kids we don’t really talk about them! I don’t love any of them . Only kids I love other than mine are my nephews