To not help my Mum change Grandads bedding?

You are not owed an explanation for why women don’t want to be default carers.

This is a very common issue.
Would men be asked to do this for a grandmother?
Not likely.

Just an expectation about women.

A few of my friends had husbands with male only siblings and the brothers decided to divvy up their mothers care between the three wives.
One set up a WhatsApp group for them to work out a rota for visits, shopping, appointments etc.

My friend sent her husband off with a flea in his ear.
She blocked his brother after leaving them clear in no uncertain terms that she had not borne loosing her own parents young, raising her children without help, to now be assigned elder care duties to a MIL that she wasn't close to, now that she was retired.

She never liked his bossy brothers and refusing to engage has given her a peace she wished she had 20 years ago.

2 years on she has never been better.

Variations of the above have happened to so many of my friends until they put their husbands straight and laid down the firmest of boundaries.

Working full-time, raising children is more than enough for them.

I agree with this. I know how relentless caring is through doing it for my profoundly disabled adult DS since he was born. I will do it as long as I am able to, but firstly that is my personal choice and secondly I freely admit I can't do it without a lot of help, much of it from professionals.

I know I would have no right to expect any reluctant person to do it for their own family member, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. This thread has hit me close to home, seeing how certain posters want to bully and guilt the OP into doing something she doesn't want to do, without any knowledge of her circumstances.

@Wonderingwhyyy

We do not need the pov of men

I never said we need anything. I said that you can’t possibly judge what women are or aren’t discussing with the men they encounter and there’s no evidence on this thread either.

frankly some of your random assertions about women on this thread are just offensive if you want to work on the whole ‘women on women misogyny’ issue. You’ve clearly built up a mythical woman complete with backstory that you’re rallying against here but I don’t see how that isn’t just plain old misogyny either.

I agree too. Between running around after my own family, working full time, I have to find time to drop home cooked food to my mum every day, make sure she does her twice daily physio, deal with all her admin, collect dirty laundry, return freshly washed laundry, sort her medication, doctor’s appointments, physio appointments and much more.

I do not wish this life on OP. Her step-dad should step up if he’s not happy with OP’s level of care.

OP sounded genuine enough to me. I think it’s far more likely OP felt hounded off the thread by the attack-dog nature of many of the responses, personally.

The nature of the forum we’re on means that the thread is less likely to have the pov of any men at all making your assumptions even more ridiculous.

We do not need the pov of men - the stats I have posted over and over say it all. The women do the majority of the care.

I am not suggesting that OP tackles the stepdad and direct all her energies towards him. I have mentioned the bigger picture several times getting all the family and services involved.

I will keep banging the drum against the shame and mud slinging being poured onto the OP and the misogynist attitudes of women towards other women

There was a couple of men but it was/is mainly women in my family. My GF did what he could but also needed care himself. There were men and women in the family who did nothing to help.

Well you’ve been doing plenty of it.

direct quote: They would never give the same advice to men. You have absolutely no idea what posters would or wouldn’t say face to face with a man in this situation. The nature of the forum we’re on means that the thread is less likely to have the pov of any men at all making your assumptions even more ridiculous.

You’ve battered a thread about four people into a cultural cause. There’s nothing realistically helpful about you banging the same drum over and over.

sure, the world would be a better place if there were equal caring responsibilities spread across the sexes, but while your preaching about a perfect world the rest of us are living in the real one that requires reactions quicker than campaigning for changing deeply rooted cultural misogyny. The OP arguing with her stepfather isn’t going to result in clean bedsheets or easing the load her mother is carrying. The OP directing her energies at a man who is clearly unrepentant and unlikely to change isn’t as helpful as maybe helping her mother to source more support from official channels.

@WearyAuldWumman I am thinking of you, life can be so hard, you are, at least, in god's own country ma hen 💐

This was clearly designed to get a debate going and the OP disappeared.
If in the unlikely event this is even real id like a bit more on why not help before I decide if you are unreasonable.
Got to admit I probably wouldn't want to do it but would.

@ruethewhirl COMPLETELY agree with your post, especially wrt the mud slingers

"Those who have actually done elder care themselves (as opposed to those who romanticise it, and I strongly suspect many of the mud-slingers on this thread fall into that category) know how back-breakingly hard and mentally traumatic it can be"

OK, I’m going to say something. Going by the overall tone of this thread, a lot of people are probably going to judge me and call me cold, unfeeling etc (because, hey, what could be more natural and heartwarming than caring for a family member at end of life? —and other saccharine sentiments trotted out by people who’ve never had to actually do it—) but here’s the thing:

Assuming of course that outside care is an option (but given that this poor man is at end of life I think it’s probably fair to assume it’s at least been offered) and that OP’s DM is choosing to care for dad herself rather than accept outside help, this choice does not oblige the rest of the family to pitch in.

Sorry, but it just doesn’t. That’s not to say I don’t sympathise with OP’s DM, I sympathise massively. She must be going through hell. But here’s the thing: if she has any choice in the matter I don’t think she should be putting herself through it, never mind asking family members too. She’s putting too huge a burden on to herself, potentially to the detriment of her own health. What if she falls or has a heart attack/stroke or something similar, where will that leave her father? Unless there are some undisclosed circumstances here that mean outside help is not available at all (as opposed to OP’s DM simply not wanting her dad to be cared for by strangers or something), I actually don’t think her mum should be doing any more of the care herself than is absolutely unavoidable. This doesn’t feel to me like a good way to manage the situation, for anyone’s sake.

Those who have actually done elder care themselves (as opposed to those who romanticise it, and I strongly suspect many of the mud-slingers on this thread fall into that category) know how back-breakingly hard and mentally traumatic it can be. I couldn’t believe one pp minimised the help as ‘just changing sheets’ or whatever. Those sheets are potentially soaked in piss, shit, vomit, all of which this poor man can’t help of course, but that’s another thing - if he still has mental capacity I strongly doubt he wants his daughter and granddaughter taking this on anyway. It isn’t natural to have to see a beloved family member reduced to this state. It’s extremely commonplace, sadly - mainly for women as has been discussed on here - but that’s not the same thing as natural.

Of course, this is all irrelevant if outside care is for some reason not available, rather than its having been turned down. But I would be really surprised by that given he’s at end of life.

I’d also just like to point out that a lot of extrapolation has taken place on this thread, OP vilified for leaving grandad lying in shitty sheets etc. OP hasn’t said that that’s the case. She may have simply been reacting to her mum asking her outside the context of a sheet-changing emergency if she would be able to help again today if it was needed, for instance. It isn’t fair to assume she would leave her DM/DGF to struggle in the moment, so to speak, when she hasn’t actually said that.

Some of the mud that’s been slung at OP on this thread is absolutely disgusting.

So easy to be judgemental when you do not know the full picture, hey?

If I had a husband and a daughter like you and your step dad I’d be so disappointed.

what awful attitudes.

Yes - I'd expected what you describe.

For his very last hospital visit, we did get longer - that was only one visit in the morning and then I took over. (I was no longer working by then.) I had to keep reminding them that we'd been promised physio from the team, however and that we'd been promised grab rails.

In the end, I had the rail in the wet room installed myself. Typically, the council came to install the external rails the day he died (of a heart attack).

I'll not derail further...just wanted to make the point that organising professional help isn't as straightforward as people might imagine.

@WearyAuldWumman don't want to de-rail this thread but it surprises that you didn't receive re-ablement for your DH for the full 6 weeks (and beyond)

That must have been hard for you.

TBH though, I'd rather be under the Scottish healthcare system.

Yes.

My parents' social worker was supportive, but the reality is that our council is subcontracting to private firms and available care is not what it used to be. There were issues with carers failing to turn up, for example, or being paid to be there for an hour (privately by me) and leaving after only a few minutes. I'll add that when it came to care for my husband, there was much less support available. As the spouse, I was expected to get on with things.

When DH had his stroke, we were promised 3 visits a day specifically for him for a fortnight when he was discharged. (I was working full time and Mum was living with us by then. I did have visits in place for her.) On the first day, someone from the team took one look at me and cut the visits to one a day. After a week, they ceased completely.

I asked for - and received - training in moving and handling Mum. They wouldn't provide it for DH. He was ambulatory by then, but had difficulty - any time he became ill (with a UTI, for example) the stroke immobility reasserted itself.

It doesn't affect me personally at the moment - my parents and DH are no longer here - but given my age I fear what is ahead for me.

As humans we are social animals, and caring for each other is part of who we are.

But caring comes with a cost- much of it is good, and often reciprocal.

Even those of us who feel it is our duty to care or we must find compassion- do we give care at all costs?
How much impact are we prepared to accept in order to care for someone else?
I think we all have limits and boundaries.

Carers can have an assessement of needs- for themselves.
This information can be used to organise a care package.

I don’t disagree your stepdad should help but I would have helped my mum. My daughters would help me. Your mum is doing a horrible job so you or your stepdad should help.

@WearyAuldWumman given your user name, are you in Scotland?

Just to say that, there, I've found social services incredibly supportive.

I agree @WearyAuldWumman referral to social service/ getting carers in isn’t a panacea, I have worked in the NHS all my life and organised care for my father, people will get better care if a relative is involved. I do take the point though that in this case, involvement of carers could/ should be considered to alleviate the pressure on OPs mum.

Were there no men in the family at all?

OP has already changed the sheets twice this week. She is showing solidarity. The mum could ask her sunbathing husband but she chooses her daughter instead.

Women often put the burden on other women instead of men.

I have done. And would do again if that what was needed.