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Original poster

To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

488 replies

Ddakji · 29/04/2025 13:23

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ddakji · 03/05/2025 22:36

Hastentoadd · 03/05/2025 21:30

Rebuttal to what you said?!?!…..it was intolerant nonsense, why would I comment any further

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But you did comment further. In such a way that showed you have nothing of value to say.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ddakji · 03/05/2025 22:35

pointythings · 03/05/2025 22:22

Dear OP,

  1. It is possible for Stonewall to be wrong (they are) and for you also to be wrong (you are).

  2. You haven't addressed the issue of the existence of languages which do not have gendered pronouns.

  3. Stop digging. You are giving GC people a bad name. They are not nearly all as militant as you are.

How am I wrong?

Why would I care about languages that aren’t English, given that it’s English I’m talking about? I do believe that’s what’s known as a strawman argument?

I’m not speaking for anyone other than myself. And 65% of the MNers who voted in agreement with me in the poll, I suppose.

OP posts:
pointythings · 03/05/2025 22:22

Dear OP,

  1. It is possible for Stonewall to be wrong (they are) and for you also to be wrong (you are).

  2. You haven't addressed the issue of the existence of languages which do not have gendered pronouns.

  3. Stop digging. You are giving GC people a bad name. They are not nearly all as militant as you are.

Original poster
Ddakji · 03/05/2025 21:39

Hastentoadd · 03/05/2025 21:30

Rebuttal to what you said?!?!…..it was intolerant nonsense, why would I comment any further

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No, it’s not. Tell me exactly what was intolerant about it. Especially the bit about the former CEO of stonewall (Nancy Kelley) calling homosexuality a prejudice akin to racism. Because if I’m intolerant because I don’t like that, that must mean you are tolerant of what she said. Which would make you quite the homophobe, wouldn’t it.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 03/05/2025 21:30

Ddakji · 03/05/2025 21:28

Whereas your post shows me that you don’t actually have any rebuttal to anything I’ve said so you’re reduced to slandering me.

Show quote history

Rebuttal to what you said?!?!…..it was intolerant nonsense, why would I comment any further

Original poster
Ddakji · 03/05/2025 21:28

Hastentoadd · 03/05/2025 21:17

Your intolerant attitude is part of the overall problem and you are trying to spread it as far as possible by writing this post

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Whereas your post shows me that you don’t actually have any rebuttal to anything I’ve said so you’re reduced to slandering me.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 03/05/2025 21:17

Ddakji · 03/05/2025 20:44

Gender identity ideology is inherently sexist and homophobic. Sexist because the only way a man can identify as a woman is via sexist stereotypes, homophobic because if you deny sex you deny same sex attraction (the former CEO of Stonewall called same sex attraction (i.e. homosexuality) a prejudice akin to racism. Stonewall have also redefined what homosexuality is in their website.

The concept of “preferred pronouns” is part of gender denting ideology, therefore adding them to your work email signature (or any other use of them) signifies a support of belief in this sexist, homophobic ideology.

The concept of “preferred” pronouns is nonsense - pronouns have clear definitions in English, for example “she” being the female 3rd person pronoun. Using it correctly is no more a choice or preference than correctly calling a banana a banana.

Misgendering is another nonsense. Using male words to describe male people, however they identify, isn’t “mis” anything. If your wife is occasionally referred to using male words, 1) that’s a mistake, see 2) if she styles herself as a “butch” lesbian, well, that comes with the territory of choosing to present yourself in a more masculine manner.

All of this impacts me and everyone else when we are all called upon to partake in this nonsense, or pretend that it’s real.

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Your intolerant attitude is part of the overall problem and you are trying to spread it as far as possible by writing this post

Original poster
Ddakji · 03/05/2025 21:00

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 03/05/2025 20:59

Yes. OP clearly prefers sex-based pronouns. And she prefers that her preference is exercised by everyone else too.

Whereas usually someone who states their preferred pronouns only wants their preference applied to them.

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Wrong. I don’t “prefer” sex-based pronouns. Pronouns are sex based. No preference involved. That’s why it’s a nonsense.

OP posts:
TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 03/05/2025 20:59

Finallydoingit24 · 29/04/2025 14:01

So you wouldn’t mind at all if someone used they/them to refer to you? Because I’ve seen people make this argument and then they get enraged if someone says they/them because it turns out they do actually want them to say she/her.
And how does a name “belong” to you more so than pronouns? You can’t actually force someone to use your correct name but you can ask them to. If they don’t, it’s rude. Same with pronouns.

Yes. OP clearly prefers sex-based pronouns. And she prefers that her preference is exercised by everyone else too.

Whereas usually someone who states their preferred pronouns only wants their preference applied to them.

maddening · 03/05/2025 20:51

Yanbu, pronouns are a result of observation by the speaker of the pronouns.

Original poster
Ddakji · 03/05/2025 20:44

EmBear91 · 03/05/2025 19:56

As a queer person myself, displaying preferred pronouns is in no way homophobic. Why do you care so much about something that clearly doesn’t impact you? If you don’t want to display pronouns yourself, totally fine. But why are you so furious at other people doing it? Personally, I’d rather just respect what people prefer. Because I’m a kind person, not a dickhead and also it’s also none of my business. Also I like to ensure that I’m addressing people correctly. My wife commonly gets misgendered as a man (purely due to her being sporty build, cropped hair, androgynous clothing etc so would never be offended by someone asking her pronouns before just diving in with “sir” or “mr” which she would then need to correct.

Show quote history

Gender identity ideology is inherently sexist and homophobic. Sexist because the only way a man can identify as a woman is via sexist stereotypes, homophobic because if you deny sex you deny same sex attraction (the former CEO of Stonewall called same sex attraction (i.e. homosexuality) a prejudice akin to racism. Stonewall have also redefined what homosexuality is in their website.

The concept of “preferred pronouns” is part of gender denting ideology, therefore adding them to your work email signature (or any other use of them) signifies a support of belief in this sexist, homophobic ideology.

The concept of “preferred” pronouns is nonsense - pronouns have clear definitions in English, for example “she” being the female 3rd person pronoun. Using it correctly is no more a choice or preference than correctly calling a banana a banana.

Misgendering is another nonsense. Using male words to describe male people, however they identify, isn’t “mis” anything. If your wife is occasionally referred to using male words, 1) that’s a mistake, see 2) if she styles herself as a “butch” lesbian, well, that comes with the territory of choosing to present yourself in a more masculine manner.

All of this impacts me and everyone else when we are all called upon to partake in this nonsense, or pretend that it’s real.

OP posts:
EmBear91 · 03/05/2025 19:56

Ddakji · 29/04/2025 15:02

It’s indicative that that person supports a sexist, homophobic, regressive ideology, so not unreasonable to decide not to work with such a person if you have a choice.

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As a queer person myself, displaying preferred pronouns is in no way homophobic. Why do you care so much about something that clearly doesn’t impact you? If you don’t want to display pronouns yourself, totally fine. But why are you so furious at other people doing it? Personally, I’d rather just respect what people prefer. Because I’m a kind person, not a dickhead and also it’s also none of my business. Also I like to ensure that I’m addressing people correctly. My wife commonly gets misgendered as a man (purely due to her being sporty build, cropped hair, androgynous clothing etc so would never be offended by someone asking her pronouns before just diving in with “sir” or “mr” which she would then need to correct.

pointythings · 03/05/2025 18:46

Add Indonesian, Finnish and Hungarian. No doubt there are others.

Maybe time for everyone to stop obsessing about it, much less 'shrieking'?

Kuretake · 03/05/2025 15:28

Jumpingthruhoops · 03/05/2025 12:17

Respectfully, that's nonsense. There are over 8 billion people in this world. For the vast majority of those people he/him and she/her is and always will be the default setting.

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I'm not sure how many languages have gendered pronouns though. Chinese doesn't in spoken language so that may be enough to scupper your vast majority. The other two I know of are Japanese and Turkish.

Jumpingthruhoops · 03/05/2025 12:18

Arraminta · 03/05/2025 12:07

It is very disrespectful of the trans woman to expect me to lie.

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Precisely.

Jumpingthruhoops · 03/05/2025 12:17

Mumtobabyhavoc · 03/05/2025 02:38

My point is, that opinion is no longer universally held. I suspect it won't be long until you're the one trying to be different. I think "default pronouns" will likely shift to they/them.

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Respectfully, that's nonsense. There are over 8 billion people in this world. For the vast majority of those people he/him and she/her is and always will be the default setting.

Arraminta · 03/05/2025 12:07

Jumpingthruhoops · 03/05/2025 01:49

If a transwoman would like to be referred to as she/her, why wouldn't you be respectful enough to use those pronouns?

For me personally, it would be because, first and foremost, I respect myself before I respect anyone else, and that involves being honest always.
So, to put it simply, if the person in question is obviously male, I wouldn't betray myself by saying otherwise.
I'd say the easiest thing to do, in this instance, is use the person's actual name (if you know it!) or job role (if you don't!). So 'the salesperson advised me' etc. This way, I'm not going to offend them - or myself!

It is very disrespectful of the trans woman to expect me to lie.

Enough4me · 03/05/2025 07:48

If someone called me they/them, I'd ask them why as it's factually inaccurate.

StMarie4me · 03/05/2025 06:11

Ddakji · 29/04/2025 13:55

The concept of “preferred pronouns” exists, as well you know. You also know that no one asks for or is expected to supply their preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns.

And that’s what I’m critiquing, as well you know.

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Not what you said. As well you know.

TheKeatingFive · 03/05/2025 02:41

Mumtobabyhavoc · 03/05/2025 02:35

Obviously false according to who? You? What if I refuse to call you what you think is obviously true? It's not that simple when we take a person's feelings into account.

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According to fact and reason. If I want you to call me Napoleon, I've no right to compel that.

If you refuse to call me something that's obviously true, then you'd look silly - that's up to you.

People's feeling need to be able to deal with facts.

Mumtobabyhavoc · 03/05/2025 02:38

Jumpingthruhoops · 03/05/2025 02:18

But I'm not trying to be different. The default pronouns for women are she/her, so unless they're trying to pick an argument that's what they'll call me.
You're talking about someone wanting to be referred to as something/someone they are clearly not. That's a different thing entirely.

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My point is, that opinion is no longer universally held. I suspect it won't be long until you're the one trying to be different. I think "default pronouns" will likely shift to they/them.

Mumtobabyhavoc · 03/05/2025 02:35

TheKeatingFive · 03/05/2025 02:05

If it's something obviously false, I don't have the right to compel them to say something that isn't true.

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Obviously false according to who? You? What if I refuse to call you what you think is obviously true? It's not that simple when we take a person's feelings into account.

Jumpingthruhoops · 03/05/2025 02:18

Mumtobabyhavoc · 03/05/2025 02:03

That's not what I mean. What if you were referred to as they/them, or he/him despite your correcting the person/people? What if they just told you they didn't agree with calling you she/her because it was stupid?

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But I'm not trying to be different. The default pronouns for women are she/her, so unless they're trying to pick an argument that's what they'll call me.
You're talking about someone wanting to be referred to as something/someone they are clearly not. That's a different thing entirely.

TheKeatingFive · 03/05/2025 02:07

Mumtobabyhavoc · 03/05/2025 02:03

That's not what I mean. What if you were referred to as they/them, or he/him despite your correcting the person/people? What if they just told you they didn't agree with calling you she/her because it was stupid?

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If someone kept getting my sex wrong, I'd be bemused, but not offended. It would just be quite strange.

TheKeatingFive · 03/05/2025 02:05

Mumtobabyhavoc · 03/05/2025 01:37

But, shoe on the other foot, how would you feel if someone refused to refer to you the way you wanted?
Wouldn't you be offended? Feel bullied? iyswim

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If it's something obviously false, I don't have the right to compel them to say something that isn't true.

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