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Original poster

To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

488 replies

Ddakji · 29/04/2025 13:23

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:43

Maddy70 · 04/05/2025 10:39

But it's the same ... Preferences on how people want to be called

Show quote history

No, it isn’t. Your name or yours to do with what you choose. Full version, short version, spell it how you like, pronounce it how you like, change it if you like.

Pronouns are part of language, and language doesn’t belong to individuals to chop and change as they choose. For words to be understood they need clear definitions, and definitions are by their nature exclusionary. Third person pronouns have definitions - she for female, he for male. It’s not a choice or preference. If you are talking about someone male it’s “he”. Just as if you’re talking about a banana, it’s “banana”. You’re not choosing to call a banana a banana, you’re not preferring to call a banana a banana.

Edited to add:

TL;DR - proper nouns and pronouns aren’t the same thing.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:41

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:33

Do you think such a complaint, about a refusal to put personal information in a work signature, information that draws attanerion to my sex which is shown to be detrimental to women in the workplace, and shows adherence to a belief, or ideological or political position, would stand up?

Do you think organizations should mandate adding “preferred pronouns” to email signatures?

(For context, my workplace doesn’t mandate this. They don’t stop others (predominantly young women) doing it. Very noticeable that none of the SLT do it.)

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It isn’t mandated in our company to put preferred pronouns on our signatures and we don’t, If someone did decide to use preferred pronouns though I think you would be expected to use them and if you didn’t it could be reason for a complaint to be made against you, it’s all about respect

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 10:39

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:21

Jesus there could be many consequences depending on the circumstances eg, in the workplace a complaint could be made to HR if you don’t use preferred pronouns etc etc

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That’s an issue that should be addressed if so. Compelled speech isn’t the right way to go.

Hopefully the Supreme Court ruling will start to filter through on this.

Maddy70 · 04/05/2025 10:39

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:35

I’m not talking about names. I think that’s quite clear from my posts.

Show quote history

But it's the same ... Preferences on how people want to be called

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:35

Maddy70 · 04/05/2025 10:25

If I prefer to be called Cat instead of Catrina that's my preference why does it bother anyone what someone else prefers to be called.

I’m not talking about names. I think that’s quite clear from my posts.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:33

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:21

Jesus there could be many consequences depending on the circumstances eg, in the workplace a complaint could be made to HR if you don’t use preferred pronouns etc etc

Show quote history

Do you think such a complaint, about a refusal to put personal information in a work signature, information that draws attanerion to my sex which is shown to be detrimental to women in the workplace, and shows adherence to a belief, or ideological or political position, would stand up?

Do you think organizations should mandate adding “preferred pronouns” to email signatures?

(For context, my workplace doesn’t mandate this. They don’t stop others (predominantly young women) doing it. Very noticeable that none of the SLT do it.)

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 10:29

Hmm interesting. I'm going to put my pronouns as yaas/queen on my signature and complain to HR when people don't use them.

Maddy70 · 04/05/2025 10:25

If I prefer to be called Cat instead of Catrina that's my preference why does it bother anyone what someone else prefers to be called.

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:21

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:15

But what consequences did you mean? I mean, you said it, what did you mean by it?

Show quote history

Jesus there could be many consequences depending on the circumstances eg, in the workplace a complaint could be made to HR if you don’t use preferred pronouns etc etc

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:15

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:15

Why would not using a false concept have any consequences? That sounds slightly threatening.

It may or may not but if you really don’t want to use them then don’t, simple really

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But what consequences did you mean? I mean, you said it, what did you mean by it?

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:15

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:11

Why would not using a false concept have any consequences? That sounds slightly threatening.

I think we will actually see a slow backing away from this, now that we’ve finally realised that words have definitions and those definitions matters, with the Supreme Court judgement.

In the meantime, of course others can use them. And I can carry on thinking them fools or people who support a sexist, homophobic ideology, and think that of the organisation they represent.

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Why would not using a false concept have any consequences? That sounds slightly threatening.

It may or may not but if you really don’t want to use them then don’t, simple really

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:11

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 09:56

Jesus, don’t use preferred pronouns if you don’t want to then and see what consequences it will have, it’s your decision

The rest of us will make up our own minds on the matter

Show quote history

Why would not using a false concept have any consequences? That sounds slightly threatening.

I think we will actually see a slow backing away from this, now that we’ve finally realised that words have definitions and those definitions matters, with the Supreme Court judgement.

In the meantime, of course others can use them. And I can carry on thinking them fools or people who support a sexist, homophobic ideology, and think that of the organisation they represent.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 09:56

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 09:31

Claiming to be something you are not is a lie, obviously. And to quote the late Magdelen Burns, I’d rather be rude than a liar. Referring to male people using female words (and vice versa) negatively impacts everyone, including the person being referred to, and particularly negatively impacts women and girls. Negatively impacting women and girls is only “good manners” if you couldn’t care less about women and girls.

I’ve already explained why I object to people putting pronouns in their work signature so I won’t waste time explaining it again - I don’t think you’re prepared to listen anyway.

Show quote history

Jesus, don’t use preferred pronouns if you don’t want to then and see what consequences it will have, it’s your decision

The rest of us will make up our own minds on the matter

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 09:52

pointythings · 04/05/2025 09:34

You're right, I'm not prepared to listen to you. Because your poiunt of view is not the only one out there - I know a great many people who are L but not T, and none of them think and act like you. Manners matter.

I don’t think it’s a manners matter situation. More a harmful ideology not everyone wants to validate.

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 09:47

MissJeanBrodiesmother · 04/05/2025 09:38

I think you havevto accept that language use changes. Some people do accept that there are preferred pronouns so I think you will ultimately have to accept this. It doesn't mean you have to use them. Personally I do not choose to and think it is nonsense that people who are not trans are declaring these pronouns on badges and emails. If people do want people to call themselves something else I try to accommodate although I do often get it wrong.

Using the correct words isn’t “getting it wrong” though, and you shouldn’t be put in a position that you feel this.

This isn’t necessarily about language changing (which is a very slow process that happens with the consent of the majority, so not what’s happening with language and trans) - it’s about pretending that we get to choose the third person pronoun to use. When you call a banana a banana is there choice or preference involved? I choose to call this banana a banana? Of course not. So why with this? The third person pronoun for a female is she. No choice, no preference.

OP posts:
MissJeanBrodiesmother · 04/05/2025 09:38

I think you havevto accept that language use changes. Some people do accept that there are preferred pronouns so I think you will ultimately have to accept this. It doesn't mean you have to use them. Personally I do not choose to and think it is nonsense that people who are not trans are declaring these pronouns on badges and emails. If people do want people to call themselves something else I try to accommodate although I do often get it wrong.

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 09:37

pointythings · 04/05/2025 09:34

You're right, I'm not prepared to listen to you. Because your poiunt of view is not the only one out there - I know a great many people who are L but not T, and none of them think and act like you. Manners matter.

Lying matters.
Cheating matters,
Language matters.
Sex matters.

OP posts:
pointythings · 04/05/2025 09:34

You're right, I'm not prepared to listen to you. Because your poiunt of view is not the only one out there - I know a great many people who are L but not T, and none of them think and act like you. Manners matter.

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 09:31

pointythings · 04/05/2025 09:22

My young adult child is actually surrounded by people who respect who he is, and who have actual good manners. What do you get out of reviling trans people by calling them liars? Why does it bother you that I put my pronouns on my email signature? You aren't helping the cause any more than the TRAs are helping theirs - both extremes are as bad as each other. Meanwhile here in the middle where the decent human beings live, people like me and moderate trans people are just trying to get on with their lives.

I also wouldn't assume that Trump knows anything about anything at all.

Show quote history

Claiming to be something you are not is a lie, obviously. And to quote the late Magdelen Burns, I’d rather be rude than a liar. Referring to male people using female words (and vice versa) negatively impacts everyone, including the person being referred to, and particularly negatively impacts women and girls. Negatively impacting women and girls is only “good manners” if you couldn’t care less about women and girls.

I’ve already explained why I object to people putting pronouns in their work signature so I won’t waste time explaining it again - I don’t think you’re prepared to listen anyway.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 09:26

pointythings · 03/05/2025 22:41

But you aren't speaking for yourself. You're literally haranguing people to agree with you.

I'm the parent of a trans DC. I have colleagues who are trans. I also have a name which does not reveal what sex I am, so I absolutely do put pronouns in my email communications. For me this is a matter of common courtesy and human decency. You have chosen to abandon those things in favour of ideology. There's a certain politician across the water who does the same thing - do you really want to emulate him? Be better.

Edited
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You can choose to align with an ideology. I don’t think it’s the pp who has abandoned adding pronouns due to one.

pointythings · 04/05/2025 09:22

Ddakji · 03/05/2025 22:47

Trump no doubt knows the sky is blue and water is wet - would you disagree in those points simply because a man you don’t like knows them to be true?

I don’t really care who you know is lying about their sex. Absolutely no one else has to go along with their lies and luckily the wheels are falling off that particular bus.

I hope your child can get some actual support that doesn’t involve forcing everyone he or she comes into contact with to be a liar.

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My young adult child is actually surrounded by people who respect who he is, and who have actual good manners. What do you get out of reviling trans people by calling them liars? Why does it bother you that I put my pronouns on my email signature? You aren't helping the cause any more than the TRAs are helping theirs - both extremes are as bad as each other. Meanwhile here in the middle where the decent human beings live, people like me and moderate trans people are just trying to get on with their lives.

I also wouldn't assume that Trump knows anything about anything at all.

Original poster
Ddakji · 03/05/2025 22:48

Hastentoadd · 03/05/2025 22:44

Honestly, I think you are just looking for attention

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You’re the one who keeps coming back to my thread 🤣🤣🤣

OP posts:
Original poster
Ddakji · 03/05/2025 22:47

pointythings · 03/05/2025 22:41

But you aren't speaking for yourself. You're literally haranguing people to agree with you.

I'm the parent of a trans DC. I have colleagues who are trans. I also have a name which does not reveal what sex I am, so I absolutely do put pronouns in my email communications. For me this is a matter of common courtesy and human decency. You have chosen to abandon those things in favour of ideology. There's a certain politician across the water who does the same thing - do you really want to emulate him? Be better.

Edited
Show quote history

Trump no doubt knows the sky is blue and water is wet - would you disagree in those points simply because a man you don’t like knows them to be true?

I don’t really care who you know is lying about their sex. Absolutely no one else has to go along with their lies and luckily the wheels are falling off that particular bus.

I hope your child can get some actual support that doesn’t involve forcing everyone he or she comes into contact with to be a liar.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 03/05/2025 22:44

Ddakji · 03/05/2025 22:36

But you did comment further. In such a way that showed you have nothing of value to say.

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Honestly, I think you are just looking for attention

pointythings · 03/05/2025 22:41

Ddakji · 03/05/2025 22:35

How am I wrong?

Why would I care about languages that aren’t English, given that it’s English I’m talking about? I do believe that’s what’s known as a strawman argument?

I’m not speaking for anyone other than myself. And 65% of the MNers who voted in agreement with me in the poll, I suppose.

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But you aren't speaking for yourself. You're literally haranguing people to agree with you.

I'm the parent of a trans DC. I have colleagues who are trans. I also have a name which does not reveal what sex I am, so I absolutely do put pronouns in my email communications. For me this is a matter of common courtesy and human decency. You have chosen to abandon those things in favour of ideology. There's a certain politician across the water who does the same thing - do you really want to emulate him? Be better.