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To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

488 replies

Ddakji · 29/04/2025 13:23

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 13:40

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:35

The point is that they may have been wrongly fired, we won’t know until the case is over so they are not really clear examples of the consequences of what can happen in the event of misuse of preferred pronouns

If they were wrongly fired for using pronouns that's pretty devastating, to be fair. Who wants to go through all that and having to fight a court case because they are referencing biological reality?

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:35

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 13:23

Yes disputes seem to be on going. I'm not sure what your point is? The teachers were fired with pronouns being part of why.

The second case seems straightforward enough however and he lost his case I believe.

The point is that they may have been wrongly fired, we won’t know until the case is over so they are not really clear examples of the consequences of what can happen in the event of misuse of preferred pronouns

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 13:23

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:10

Looked at the first link and it states ‘allegedly fired’, the case seems to be still ongoing, the second link also states that there is an ongoing case on it

Yes disputes seem to be on going. I'm not sure what your point is? The teachers were fired with pronouns being part of why.

The second case seems straightforward enough however and he lost his case I believe.

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:17

neverbeenskiing · 04/05/2025 13:12

It also says she wasn't fired for refusing to use preferred pronouns, she was fired for disclosing confidential details about the child in question to a third party.

None of these cases including the Enoch Burke case seem to be solely related to ‘preferred pronouns’ therefore they are bit more complex

neverbeenskiing · 04/05/2025 13:12

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:10

Looked at the first link and it states ‘allegedly fired’, the case seems to be still ongoing, the second link also states that there is an ongoing case on it

It also says she wasn't fired for refusing to use preferred pronouns, she was fired for disclosing confidential details about the child in question to a third party.

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:10

Looked at the first link and it states ‘allegedly fired’, the case seems to be still ongoing, the second link also states that there is an ongoing case on it

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 12:59

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 12:46

However I believe there are examples of teachers being fired for not using preferred pronouns in the UK and maybe Canada.

Are there? can you provide links to these cases

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rkprmpvpyo.amp

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-68609392.amp

Here's some UK examples. If you google 'teacher fired pronouns' quite a few US examples pop up too

An image of Nottingham Employment Tribunal Centre

Christian teacher 'sacked after pupil pronouns row' - BBC News

The teacher has taken the county council to a tribunal claiming unfair dismissal.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rkprmpvpyo.amp

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 12:52

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 12:44

In fairness, the Enoch Burke case has multiple elements to it. Pronouns were just the trigger point (and the driver of media interest).

However I believe there are examples of teachers being fired for not using preferred pronouns in the UK and maybe Canada.

The Enoch Burke case is still relevant though as he hasn’t been fired for the misuse of preferred pronouns and is still being paid a wage even though he hasn’t worked at the school since 2022, the case is ongoing, It’s a complex case though and not just about preferred pronouns

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 12:46

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 12:44

In fairness, the Enoch Burke case has multiple elements to it. Pronouns were just the trigger point (and the driver of media interest).

However I believe there are examples of teachers being fired for not using preferred pronouns in the UK and maybe Canada.

However I believe there are examples of teachers being fired for not using preferred pronouns in the UK and maybe Canada.

Are there? can you provide links to these cases

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 12:44

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 12:17

Please enough with the ‘kind’ person schtick again. . It is getting annoying now. It is performative

Unless you give away all your salary to someone less fortunate or volunteer your spare time to charity you are not a ‘kind’ person.

Unless you give away all your salary to someone less fortunate or volunteer your spare time to charity you are not a ‘kind’ person

You can be a kind person without doing either of those things

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 12:44

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 12:22

I suppose,
A teacher in Ireland (Enoch Burke) refused to use the preferred pronouns of a pupil in 2022 and it led to a big court case that is still ongoing.

In fairness, the Enoch Burke case has multiple elements to it. Pronouns were just the trigger point (and the driver of media interest).

However I believe there are examples of teachers being fired for not using preferred pronouns in the UK and maybe Canada.

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 12:22

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 11:55

So if there could be a consequence, that rather negates this being an issue of preference. It’s a demand.

I suppose,
A teacher in Ireland (Enoch Burke) refused to use the preferred pronouns of a pupil in 2022 and it led to a big court case that is still ongoing.

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 12:17

EmBear91 · 03/05/2025 19:56

As a queer person myself, displaying preferred pronouns is in no way homophobic. Why do you care so much about something that clearly doesn’t impact you? If you don’t want to display pronouns yourself, totally fine. But why are you so furious at other people doing it? Personally, I’d rather just respect what people prefer. Because I’m a kind person, not a dickhead and also it’s also none of my business. Also I like to ensure that I’m addressing people correctly. My wife commonly gets misgendered as a man (purely due to her being sporty build, cropped hair, androgynous clothing etc so would never be offended by someone asking her pronouns before just diving in with “sir” or “mr” which she would then need to correct.

Please enough with the ‘kind’ person schtick again. . It is getting annoying now. It is performative

Unless you give away all your salary to someone less fortunate or volunteer your spare time to charity you are not a ‘kind’ person.

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 11:55

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 11:08

Jesus, nobody knows for sure as yet as there doesn’t ( to my knowledge) seem to be a precedent, I said there could possibly be consequences which one may have to deal with if they decide not to use them!

So if there could be a consequence, that rather negates this being an issue of preference. It’s a demand.

OP posts:
Gettingbysomehow · 04/05/2025 11:15

You only have to watch tiktok videos for half an hour to watch people going out of their way to be misgendered and then screeching about it. It's beyond tedious.

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 11:08

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:59

I’m asking you. Because you brought it up.

You’re very unwilling to back up the statement you make.

Jesus, nobody knows for sure as yet as there doesn’t ( to my knowledge) seem to be a precedent, I said there could possibly be consequences which one may have to deal with if they decide not to use them!

Moier · 04/05/2025 11:02

Bugger off.
Non of your business what l or anyone else does.
New words emerge all the time.. shall we not use those either.
You do you.. idiot

Swiftie1878 · 04/05/2025 11:00

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:46

Do you think in the light of all the recent judgements such a complaint would stand up? What you are suggesting is mandated compelled speech in the workplace. That’s not respect.

OP - you have a point to make, and you’ve made it. Quite a few times now.
People disagree with you, and not just because your OP was badly phrased and naturally incorrect as a result, but also because they feel differently about trans issues than you do.

The answer to your original question is that it is unreasonable to shriek your view from the rooftops. That is not how you persuade people; that’s how you alienate them and make them think you are ranty and unreasonable as you refuse to acknowledge differences of opinion. [Before you reply saying it isn’t a matter of opinion, sex is binary etc, I’m not talking about sex, I’m talking about what allowances people are prepared to make for other individuals in order to be kind/respectful]

On your point about language - it does change and evolve all the time. You keep using a banana as an example, but I could equally refer to the words ‘sick’, or ‘gay’ (amongst many others). They have markedly different meanings today than they’ve had in the past.

You clearly feel very strongly about trans issues (as do I), but your arguments need more nuance and diplomacy if you wish to persuade others.
If you don’t wish to persuade, but are rather just aiming to annoy and agitate, then continue as you are.

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:59

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:53

Test it out then and see what happens, it’s entirely up to you

I’m asking you. Because you brought it up.

You’re very unwilling to back up the statement you make.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 10:54

The Supreme Court ruling should help but the idea you can be disciplined or worse in a job for not following a harmful ideology has to be over.

If the SC can say biological male then anyone can. No repercussions.

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:53

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:46

Do you think in the light of all the recent judgements such a complaint would stand up? What you are suggesting is mandated compelled speech in the workplace. That’s not respect.

Test it out then and see what happens, it’s entirely up to you

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:52

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 10:44

That is compelled speech and I wonder how it would go at a tribunal

Don’t know but I have no intention of testing it as at the end of the day, the using of preferred pronouns is not a big deal for me and dealing with possible consequences of not using them is not a hill I could be bothered dying on as I generally prefer to focus on things that I consider to be bigger issues, if other people want to test it out that’s their prerogative

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:50

It also suggests that “preferred” has segued into “mandated” or “compelled”, making it clear that there’s no “preference” about it - use my chosen words or face the consequences. Which is of course the whole point.

Like I keep saying - words have meaning.

OP posts:
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 10:46

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:41

It isn’t mandated in our company to put preferred pronouns on our signatures and we don’t, If someone did decide to use preferred pronouns though I think you would be expected to use them and if you didn’t it could be reason for a complaint to be made against you, it’s all about respect

Do you think in the light of all the recent judgements such a complaint would stand up? What you are suggesting is mandated compelled speech in the workplace. That’s not respect.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 10:44

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 10:41

It isn’t mandated in our company to put preferred pronouns on our signatures and we don’t, If someone did decide to use preferred pronouns though I think you would be expected to use them and if you didn’t it could be reason for a complaint to be made against you, it’s all about respect

That is compelled speech and I wonder how it would go at a tribunal

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