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Original poster

To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

488 replies

Ddakji · 29/04/2025 13:23

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:28

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 14:24

Well, my argument in this thread is specifically that “preferred pronouns” are a nonsense on a number of levels, which you yourself have shown. Anything that you can’t refuse without consequence isn’t a preference, unless you’ve decided to redefine what prefer means.

Along with that, you seem to be redefining what “respect” means, given that it isn’t the slightest bit respectful to demand, with consequences, that others deny reality, and to deny them the correct language to describe that reality.

A preference isn’t a demand, and respect isn’t a one-way street.

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But it isn’t a demand it’s a preference, you don’t have to use it if you don’t want

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 14:28

Ultimately, I don't even think it's respectful to the people asking for preferred pronouns to do that without question or any thought to the wider consequences. For them as much as for anyone else.

Respect isn't about just giving people what they want.

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 14:27

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:26

No, it’s respect, not kindness
I expect people to show me respect but by the same token I show respect, you cannot expect to be treated respectfully if you don’t show it
It has nothing to do with people pleasing

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With trans, it absolutely is. The person who demands with consequences that you use the wrong words to describe them isn’t treating you with a shred of respect.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:26

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 14:19

Again #bekind

if you don’t do what I tell you to do, you are unkind.

manipulative in my opinion, particularly to women who are conditioned to be people pleasers

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No, it’s respect, not kindness
I expect people to show me respect but by the same token I show respect, you cannot expect to be treated respectfully if you don’t show it
It has nothing to do with people pleasing

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 14:24

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:15

I get what your saying but doesn’t it all boil down to whether you are going to behave in a respectful manner or not, treating colleagues / people with respect etc

Show quote history

Well, my argument in this thread is specifically that “preferred pronouns” are a nonsense on a number of levels, which you yourself have shown. Anything that you can’t refuse without consequence isn’t a preference, unless you’ve decided to redefine what prefer means.

Along with that, you seem to be redefining what “respect” means, given that it isn’t the slightest bit respectful to demand, with consequences, that others deny reality, and to deny them the correct language to describe that reality.

A preference isn’t a demand, and respect isn’t a one-way street.

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 14:24

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:15

I get what your saying but doesn’t it all boil down to whether you are going to behave in a respectful manner or not, treating colleagues / people with respect etc

Show quote history

But why have you deemed this is 'respectful'?

We don't think its respectful to affirm an anorexic's belief that they are overweight. We don't think it's respectful to affirm someone's belief that they are Jesus or Napoleon, or even another race or age. So why this?

The Cass report was clear that social transition is not a neutral act and can hasten people down paths that may not be right for them. Ultimately some of these paths can be very harmful for the individual.

And that's before we get into the wider implications for society in prioritising 'gender' over sex and the implications that ultimately has for women's rights and safeguarding.

So personally, I strongly disagree that using preferred pronouns is respectful or kind if we look at them wider picture.

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 14:19

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:15

I get what your saying but doesn’t it all boil down to whether you are going to behave in a respectful manner or not, treating colleagues / people with respect etc

Show quote history

Again #bekind

if you don’t do what I tell you to do, you are unkind.

manipulative in my opinion, particularly to women who are conditioned to be people pleasers

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:19

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 14:15

Sorry but the person I responded to originally said they were kind because they used preferred pronouns. Therefore People do go around telling others how kind they are

the point I am trying to make is:

if some says I don’t use preferred pronouns, there is someone who bleats ‘it is kind to use them, what harm does it do you? You are unkind and mean.’

someone else goes, ‘I have no money, I’m really hard up this month, would you give me you spare salary this month?’ When some says no, no one goes ‘but you are so unkind and mean’

I have made this point before and a Lot agreed - only used in this one situation.

and no volunteering isn’t performative kindness unless you tell all and sundry about it. Most don’t tell anyone.

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and no volunteering isn’t performative kindness unless you tell all and sundry about it. Most don’t tell anyone

I would argue that it can be as a lot of people do tell others about it and some make quite a big song and dance about it

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:15

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 14:05

How can you misuse a preferred word that is being misused in the first place?

So I’ll break it down into two parts.

First - if it’s a preference then not using it is an acceptable reaction, whether you like it or not, and there is no consequence to that refusal. If not using it isn’t acceptable, it’s no longer a preference but a demand, with consequences.

Second - if this “preference” is to use the wrong word (so a male person “preferring” female pronouns), then it is that person who is misusing the word, not the person refusing to use the wrong word.

Both of this prove further that the concept of “preferred pronouns” is a nonsense.

Show quote history

I get what your saying but doesn’t it all boil down to whether you are going to behave in a respectful manner or not, treating colleagues / people with respect etc

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 14:15

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:08

I would argue that volunteer work is performative kindness in a lot of cases and no none goes around telling people that they are kind, there are many ways to be kind with out having to give away all your wages and volunteering

Anyway giving away all your wages isn’t particularly kind or sensible if you have a family to provide for and bills to pay,

Show quote history

Sorry but the person I responded to originally said they were kind because they used preferred pronouns. Therefore People do go around telling others how kind they are

the point I am trying to make is:

if some says I don’t use preferred pronouns, there is someone who bleats ‘it is kind to use them, what harm does it do you? You are unkind and mean.’

someone else goes, ‘I have no money, I’m really hard up this month, would you give me you spare salary this month?’ When some says no, no one goes ‘but you are so unkind and mean’

I have made this point before and a Lot agreed - only used in this one situation.

and no volunteering isn’t performative kindness unless you tell all and sundry about it. Most don’t tell anyone.

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:08

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 14:00

No that is true kindness - the non performative kindness. If you tell people you are kind, you aren’t

No one goes around telling everyone how kind they are in any other situation except when it it comes to trans rights. ‘Look everyone’ look at me. I am no so nice and kind.’ .

Show quote history

I would argue that volunteer work is performative kindness in a lot of cases and no none goes around telling people that they are kind, there are many ways to be kind with out having to give away all your wages and volunteering

Anyway giving away all your wages isn’t particularly kind or sensible if you have a family to provide for and bills to pay,

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 14:06

SingleAHF · 04/05/2025 13:52

Pronouns are NOT what people call themselves!

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It’s incredible how gender ideology has mangled language and understanding.

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 14:06

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:02

Why what?

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Why are “preferred pronouns” helpful? Does your work require you to know the sex of all your colleagues on the call?

OP posts:
Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 14:05

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:58

Because it’s the other persons preference ( preferred pronoun) not the preference of the person who is misusing it

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How can you misuse a preferred word that is being misused in the first place?

So I’ll break it down into two parts.

First - if it’s a preference then not using it is an acceptable reaction, whether you like it or not, and there is no consequence to that refusal. If not using it isn’t acceptable, it’s no longer a preference but a demand, with consequences.

Second - if this “preference” is to use the wrong word (so a male person “preferring” female pronouns), then it is that person who is misusing the word, not the person refusing to use the wrong word.

Both of this prove further that the concept of “preferred pronouns” is a nonsense.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 14:02

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 13:56

Why?

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Why what?

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 14:01

TheOriginalEmu · 04/05/2025 13:43

So you can only be kind if you give away your whole salary or do some volunteer work? Those are the only ways?

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No the type when you help people who need it and don’t tell everyone how kind you are. No one does it except for in this situation.

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 14:00

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 12:44

Unless you give away all your salary to someone less fortunate or volunteer your spare time to charity you are not a ‘kind’ person

You can be a kind person without doing either of those things

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No that is true kindness - the non performative kindness. If you tell people you are kind, you aren’t

No one goes around telling everyone how kind they are in any other situation except when it it comes to trans rights. ‘Look everyone’ look at me. I am no so nice and kind.’ .

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 13:59

neverbeenskiing · 04/05/2025 13:48

That's not why they were fired though.

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In some of those situations it seems to be a fundamental aspect of it

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:58

Ddakji · 04/05/2025 13:56

“Misuse of preferred pronouns” - again, you’re demonstrating that they are not preferred. How can you misuse a preference? Especially if that “preference” is to misuse a word in the first place?!

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Because it’s the other persons preference ( preferred pronoun) not the preference of the person who is misusing it

Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 13:56

Dearover · 04/05/2025 13:51

I have regular Zoom calls with 40 - 70 people who typically don't switch on their cameras. PP are extremely helpful I'm interacting with a Sam or a name I'm unfamiliar with.

Why?

OP posts:
Original poster
Ddakji · 04/05/2025 13:56

Hastentoadd · 04/05/2025 13:35

The point is that they may have been wrongly fired, we won’t know until the case is over so they are not really clear examples of the consequences of what can happen in the event of misuse of preferred pronouns

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“Misuse of preferred pronouns” - again, you’re demonstrating that they are not preferred. How can you misuse a preference? Especially if that “preference” is to misuse a word in the first place?!

OP posts:
SingleAHF · 04/05/2025 13:52

Shegotanology · 29/04/2025 13:26

Why does it bother you what people call themselves?

Pronouns are NOT what people call themselves!

Dearover · 04/05/2025 13:51

I have regular Zoom calls with 40 - 70 people who typically don't switch on their cameras. PP are extremely helpful I'm interacting with a Sam or a name I'm unfamiliar with.

neverbeenskiing · 04/05/2025 13:48

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2025 13:40

If they were wrongly fired for using pronouns that's pretty devastating, to be fair. Who wants to go through all that and having to fight a court case because they are referencing biological reality?

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That's not why they were fired though.

TheOriginalEmu · 04/05/2025 13:43

CantStopMoving · 04/05/2025 12:17

Please enough with the ‘kind’ person schtick again. . It is getting annoying now. It is performative

Unless you give away all your salary to someone less fortunate or volunteer your spare time to charity you are not a ‘kind’ person.

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So you can only be kind if you give away your whole salary or do some volunteer work? Those are the only ways?