To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

This

If "Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to us all" then why is YOUR view on pronouns the definitive one?

At some point in English use of different pronouns changed from separate ones for second person singular and plural/general vs respectful to just having "you/your" for everything rather than thee/thy etc, whereas the difference is still retained in other languages

You could scream about "they" only being "supposed" to be used for multiple people but someone speaking French or Welsh would think it equally illogical to not know how many people are being addressed when you refer to "you", or to address a lecture in the same way you would your mate.

Agreed.

They really don't require cognitive gymnastics, it's not that hard. It's not a headfuck. Words do not have an innate meaning, words are given meaning in the context they are used. That's linguistics. Language morfs and changes over time and takes on new and different meaning.

Also, that image is vile and designed to provoke hate. Why? Sex has been defined in law. The GC have already 'won'. I see no reason why I can't modify my language a bit to make someone else feel seen and included. You obviously do. I think that says more about you than me.

All those words to justify hating trans people.

Which is all your 'argument' amounts to.

I'm as GC as the next but yabu to say preferred pronouns don’t exist. Clearly they exist because someone has made them a thing. You can choose not to acknowledge them. You can choose not to use them but you cannot claim someone’s preference for something is non existent.

If someone started referring to you as he/him or it you’d probably get annoyed and point out it was she/her (or whatever you choose) and that is your preferred pronoun and not the one the other person hypothetically forced upon you.

are the ding/dong pronoun types ridiculous yes, do they exist- only if someone has created them

I wouldn’t use them because they require me to perform cognitive gymnastics that I think are pretty abusive

Oh, don’t be ridiculous …..abusive!

So if a trans woman would like to be referred to as she/her, you wouldn’t respect that because you think it would be abusive to you…..that’s just stupid

There are languages where third person pronouns are not gendered. Their speakers often struggle with “he / she” in the early stages of learning English.

You don’t have to, compelled speech shouldn’t happen. I agree with the sentiment in the image too.

But where do you draw the lines with that position? Will you insist on gendered language where it's not appropriate - for example when formally addressing a doctor, a member of the Church, a professor, etc? What about when you are uncertain of someone's gender and it cannot be inferred from the information you have available? Are you more comfortable with them providing coded assistance in the form of pronouns, or with guessing and potentially misgendering and offending someone? Not even necessarily a trans or "gender non-conforming" person, but maybe someone from another country who has a name you are not familiar with and are not able to code?

The fact that you think it's abusive to ask people to use preferred pronouns is just ridiculous and over the top.

None of this has any bearing on the fact you don't think preferred pronouns exist which is just silly.

That's one of the most refreshing things I've ever read on Mumsnet amidst posters banging on about "the gender wars"

I find it useful. It helps me to see who starts shrieking with rage, and therefore who I know to avoid speaking to. A bigot filter, if you will.

Honestly, OP, you're coming over as a really nasty piece of work. Sex is immutable, yes. But identity isn't. If a transwoman would like to be referred to as she/her, why wouldn't you be respectful enough to use those pronouns? It's kind, it's inclusive, and it makes fuck all difference to how you live your life. I'm GC too but I'm not an arsehole.

Yep. GC people complain about young people and the trans community being hysterical and over reacting.

Then there’s these reactions ….

This isn’t a natural evolution though, it’s authoritarian control.

OP a lot of people are missing the point, which is that in the natural use of language, the only thing you can normally dictate to others is the name they call you. Dictating pronouns is unnatural and therefore feels controlling.

@Throughahedgebackwards As I said before, you can call people what you want.

Pronouns replace nouns - simple as. You remind me of the boys I used to teach in the late nineties (former English teacher) - and older men of the same era for that matter - who had similar objections to the use of Ms as a title. They felt entitled to the knowledge of my marital status that the ‘old’ titles conveyed, and really didn’t like me using Ms. Of course, they couldn’t stop me using it, but they wouldn’t have it imposed on them! Similarly, my mum used to insist on addressing cards etc to my brother’s wife, who kept their name as ‘Mrs brother’s name’ because she didn’t ‘believe in’ not taking your husband’s name. Like I say, you do you. Maybe language will evolve and using the gender neutral ‘they’ will become the norm; maybe it won’t. In the meantime, I’ll continue to address people by the names, titles and pronouns that they prefer, because I choose to accommodate people’s preferences when they aren’t harming anyone else, tedious though might sometimes be to be ‘corrected’.

First world problems, it's a trivial courtesy to address a person in whatever way they prefer.

No one has the right to tell others how to express themselves, adopting a pronoun is a simple freedom, who cares?

It doesn't. But it does bother me what they demand about how I refer to them.

That's not what the OP is saying either though, or not what she said in her initial post and thread title, she's backtracked a little since. The first post seems more to be saying that because most (all) people use the word 'chair' to mean the thing with legs that you sit on, if some people start a social or political movement trying to insist people start calling the things with legs that you sit on a table, or that everyone must publically declare their seating-descriptor preference in order to avoid table/chair based offense, because the table-movement is so obviously wrong/unreasonable, that means the terms table and chair literally don't exist as 'preferred nouns'. That part is what people are saying is wrong about the OP, everyone agrees the words exist, everyone agrees some (most) people have feelings about those words and how they're used, it's the reasonableness or otherwise of policing how people use the terms to refer to themselves or others, and the reasonableness or otherwise of insisting or encouraging declaration of your preferences is what's unclear/the subject of debate. Trying to argue you're right on the basis of things 'not existing' is not a very good way to win an argument when there's general consensus they do exist...

@Bartoz I'm sure you understand what I've written, or are you being deliberately obtuse?

That's a very extreme and over the top interpretation of someone putting She/her at the bottom of their email 🙄

My biggest issue is I cannot remember peoples names so chances of me remembering preferred pronouns is practically impossible. Pronouns is very instinctual as we can recognise male and female by sight. It isn’t something that we have to learn and remember about someone.