To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

Some languages don't differentiate between he and she or her and him/his. Turkish is one example.

The problem the OP describes is not a problem of people, but merely one of language. Move countries and it's no longer an issue.

Thankfully it's not legal to not have to use pronouns. So everybody wins . I am pretty sure most of us women don't even give it much thought outside of mumsnet. I wouldn't engage with someone who got upset because I got their pronouns wrong I would just change the subject and move on. And they would too I'm sure.

To be fair I think you are correct in that pronouns aren't a huge deal. It's the women's spaces that is a big deal, and thankfully the Supreme Court is seeing sense.

Not everyone will agree with the verdict, but it stands. The next issue will be something else and this will be forgotten about most likely 30 years down the line.

Here

If you agree to call a man 'she' you make it that little bit harder to argue why 'she' shouldn't be allowed into women's changing rooms, sport teams, domestic violence shelters, prisons.

Prioritising gender identity over sex by using preferred pronouns can distort the reality of what's going on and can make safeguarding women more difficult.

Take the recent Sandi Peggy case. Here are two ways to describe Dr Upton's actions ...

She entered the women's changing rooms and took her clothes off in front of the women present.

Or ...

He entered the women's changing rooms and took his clothes off in front of the women present.

Both of those statements describe exactly the same act, involving the same person. But they evoke very different reactions, don't you think?

Any changes in language that make it more difficult for women to define themselves or their rights are problematic as I see it.

A man who hasn't even transitioned who demands to use women only spaces and be called her/she, and gets offended.rather graciously conceding that they will have to use their own spaces is surely making it all about him ? Centering himself? Do you not see that @Stellaris ? They even use the language of minority groups . As if they are black or disabled or something ! Like it's even comparable.

No, you’re being an idiot. The point is that someone telling you what their preferred pronouns are has zero impact on your freedom of speech, they are not compelling you to do anything, they are letting you know how they prefer to be referred to, and then it is entirely up to you whether you want to be an asshole or not.

I disagree as I outline upthread. I'll repost if I can find it.

I don’t believe in God, I’m not going to refuse to call a reverend, Reverend or a Rabbi, Rabbi because they are asking me to use a title based on beliefs I don’t share. I don’t think humans can change sex but if someone states their pronouns, I go with it. It’s up to them.
It’s kind of silly to draw an equivalence with pronouns and safeguarding. The pronouns aren’t the problem. They aren’t the thin end of the wedge, the problem for me was always the weasel organisations dressing up misogyny as progressive rights, rapists using the trans umbrella to cover themselves and their kinks and sports cheats. The pronoun bit is hardly the point.

@Stellaris22 is it not attention seeking for a bloke in a dress to demand he be called she/him when he hasn't even bothered to transition ? Are we expected to take this seriously ? If they are dysphoric why aren't they saving money or working extra jobs to afford hormones etc?

You guys? Won? Yes, women being allowed to retain the word women because we women are women and feel that men telling us that we don’t know what woman is is ridiculous means we “won”.

YANBU to dislike the term; YABU to feel so strongly about it and wish to shout it from the rooftops.

What also annoys me is how the word trans is a huge umbrella term. So those who actually intend to transition are lumped in with people who are claiming trans as an identity but have no intention of transitioning .

Our of all the trans people I know only one of them is actually on hormones and full time dressed as opposite sex. They feel distressed about their issues.

One of my other friends changes his mind on it all the time and only dresses as a woman sometimes . Both totally different conditions .

Yet both have this same label? So no I don't buy into the label trans either . It's not a thing as such . It's just a different gender expression . It's subjective .

If people think it's being a 'dick' to consider the impact on women's safeguarding then I think that says a lot more about them than anything else.

People can prefer whatever pronouns they like
you can prefer to ignore their choices
some people might prefer to think of you as a dick.

True but it's also manners to respect when someone feels uncomfortable or distressed doing so. Doesn't it go both ways? Relationships are a mutual thing, where respect needs to go both ways. Why is it always the women giving way to the minority of TRA.

I want equal respect in a relationship not to be the one doing all the giving in .

Most of the trans people I know don't insist on pronouns and respect my boundaries as I respect theirs.

The whole "poor me I'm so oppressed because I can't be in women's spaces or hear my own birth pronouns " are a small vocal minority of extremely unstable and self absorbed types. It's not reality . It's TRA propaganda just like the suicide threats (tantrums basically). IT's not a real representation of trans or queer people at all.

They give trans people a bad name .

People can choose to call themselves whatever they wish. Just as I can choose to not pander to it.

This is not about fear for me, I wish all trans people well. It's about respecting reality. Humans can't change sex and I'm not going to pretend they can - call me what you like, but that's where my position comes from.

I completely agree. You’re born either male or female.

You can dick about calling yourself they/xir or whatever nonsense but nobody cares, it’s absolutely Wally behaviour. I must call a transwoman at work she because I’ll get sacked, but from what I’ve heard from the rest of the department we’re all GC, so we’re all literally humouring a mentally unwell man.

Absolutely.

Because there is. Preference I mean. OP not liking it doesn’t remove its existence.

Sigh…the usual gaslighting…
”what does it matter?”
”how does it hurt you?”
”what about the pain of trans people?”
”they’re just words”

Sex matters. And I don’t employ anyone, or buy services from, or have professional respect for dimwits who put pronouns on their emails or name badges.

It means they’re willing to throw girls and women under a bus for the sake of a pernicious misogynistic ideology.

'Preferred' is not the same as 'insisting'.

Yeah well the majority of people don't spend an awful lot of time with trans+ people. That's why it's been so easy for politicians and certain authors to whip up fear. When you actually spend enough time around people and listen to them, you realise that people generally rub along fine.

You do you. I'm not telling you what to do either. My position is that you're acting like a stubborn, close minded person. You are welcome to carry on staying away from us. 🤷🏼

@StJamesInfirmary Nobody can dictate what you call them when they aren't there. Nor when they are there.

So we do everything everyone asks of us, without question? That's not actually true though.

@StJamesInfirmary "who on earth bestowed the right on them to dictate what I say when they aren't there?"
Do you not understand what you wrote?