Benefit cuts will cost the economy.

PIP isn’t means tested. It’s irrelevant what you spend the money on.

And? It just has to be reasonable for you to need the support. You don't need to prove that you have extra costs or what the moneys going to be spent on

Someone I know (a bright student doing an integrated masters in mathematics at a top university) gets PIP due to autism.

They used their PIP money for a holiday to America. As in they got a lump sum payment and just used that to go on holiday.

Kinda showed that without the PIP they were managing and surviving.

Because you used the word - if you don’t want to be pulled up think about what you’re saying before you post. In any case a poster has said that they work for the CAB and don’t exaggerate and wouldn’t exaggerate so it all seems unlikely anyway.

Filling in the forms is one thing it’s when you’re sitting in-front of a panel your words can be misconstrued as they ask crafty questions then twist them.

I know from my mother and sister’s experiences and have even attended tribunals in which the outcome went in their favour.

The issue is, if the assessors weren’t hell bent on trying to prove the person in-front of them is a liar (even with evidence) also twisting words then there would be no need for extra tribunals and the likes, which also costs the taxpayer.

I think we know by now considering the expensive educations most politicians have had, they aren’t blessed with common sense as we’ll see in future when all the changes backfire and crime rates go up.

But the assessors still twist it all round and play with your words so you might express you have a tiny amount of capability to do something minuscule inside your house, next thing they knock a point off your overall result.

They are very crafty.

You clearly don't understand how disability works. You could watch me use the kettle once and deduce from that I have no issues using the kettle. In reality, every time I use the kettle, I'm at risk of throwing boiling water over myself.

I need to make that risk clear, because saying I have absolutely no issues with using the kettle would be inaccurate. I can use a kettle. I can also give myself horrible burns using a kettle. So which is true? I can use a kettle or I can't?

Me making one cup of tea without incident does not mean I'm not impacted by my disability. I need to make that very clear otherwise it'll be assumed I can use a kettle all the time just as an able bodied person could. I can't. It's dangerous.

But I’m just a little person on mumsnet why are you running with one word I used like it’s gospel and I’m god ? I’ve never applied for pip but like I said I do know the hardships some people go through to have their very serious medical conditions taken seriously by ‘none medical’ expert assessors (even with pages of evidence).

Most initially get refused so approach CAB and other helpful services who can advise to get the PIP they fully deserve.

Do you not watch the news or other outlets or listen to people’s experiences, they can’t all be lying what about the charities? on how brutal it is for fully deserving people to get justice.

PIP needed reformed for the better instead it’s been made more brutal.

(In our case, they’re all ‘worst days’, so it didn’t make any difference)

Exactly this. We were told to use our worst days as an example.

No, presumably the advice would be per the guidance that PIP should be about how you are affected the majority of the time, not your best day, not your worst day, your typical day- most days.

If you are filling in the forms answering as if it is your worst day then that IS exaggerating, it is dishonest, and you are doing that because if you filled it in accurately for your average day you would not be eligible. So it is funny how we’ve gone from “oh no PIP has a 0% fraud rate” to “CAB are advising people to fraudulently claim by exaggerating symptoms”. Interestingly even a quick bit of online search expressly confirms that answering as if it is your worst day or “exaggerating” is indeed fraudulent.

I think the standard advice CAB used to give (maybe still do) is to make sure you describe your worst day, and not only your good days. I’m not sure we can really characterise that as encouraging claimants to exaggerate.

Exaggerate = representing something to be better or worse than it is. Straight from the OED.

You were the one who used that word, you confidently stated that CAB are providing that advice, exaggerating is a form of dishonesty, if you HAVE to exaggerate to be entitled then that means you would not be entitled if you told the truth- and therefore you are not actually entitled.

Perhaps if people weren’t “exaggerating” to claim PIP then the current reform would not be needed because only the people who do actually fit the criteria if answering honestly would be claiming and so there would be no concern whatsoever over the ever growing bill.

So You would advise people to talk about their short lived positive hours/days knowing full well it would go against them ?

I doubt that very much.

You obviously don’t listen to what people are telling you and are comfortable running with a word I used (exaggerate) because it suits your confirmation bias.

Maybe you should be a PIP assessor they also ignore 99% evidence also.

That is really interesting and is what I’d have hoped would be the case, especially as you acknowledge to do so WOULD be fraudulent activity. Thank you for that input :)

I would just like to say I worked for CAB for six years and never encouraged people to exaggerate symptoms for PIP claims. I would not be involved in any kind of fraudulent activity like that.

This is for the naysayers because I used the word exaggerate.

I know people who are being denied pip even when they have specialist/ consultant letters from the hospital even when their bones are crumbling or have degenerative illness that will not get better but only worse. Some of these people where initially refused pip because they had their word twisted because they said they could brush their teeth standing at the sink or make themselves a sandwich.

They went to places like CAB for help with forms etc and were told how harsh and barbaric the whole system is so not to talk about anything positive because the assessors will run with it or twist words, like most be be bureaucratic nonsense.

They love to play god and refuse people.

I don't know if you're deliberately missing the point or not, I can't tell

I'm not saying they are giving evidence to the DWP. What I'm saying is, if a person has been diagnosed with an illness or disability by a medical professional, I don't see the value in having an untrained person deciding the impact that illness or disability has on their life.

It's evident that the current method isn't working, given we have so many successful appeals.

But they’re only entitled if they lie about their symptoms, if they told the truth they won’t be entitled?

Like I said the pip assessors deal in absolutes they judge harshly. They don’t want to hear about the few good hours you had in a week or how you pushed yourself (and paid for it later) to go the shop or for a coffee because you felt like you would off yourself out of sheer loneliness or Boredom and misery.

The fact that CAB and other professional advisors tell potential claimants to exaggerate and not speak of the one ounce of positive they may experience in a day, week, month because it’ll go against them then that’s the real problem. If anybody’s illness (whatever it is) outweighs the good then in a civilised society they should get help.

It seems like you are committed to your narrative on benefit scroungers and fraudsters. You probably only believe people are really ill if they’re severely mentally disabled or in a coma.

No, they're trying to make sure they get the benefits they're entitled to.

CAB shouldn't need to be involved at all.

Most GPs don’t have a clue about what their patients can and can’t do, they wouldn’t be giving that sort of evidence to DWP