Benefit cuts will cost the economy.

On one hand I do wonder what is the point of Labour continuing on the route the Tories went down for years without positive results, and think the planned cuts are probably going too far overall in terms of how much individuals will suffer.

On the other there is no economic measure Labour can propose that doesn't result in somebody saying it's bad for the economy. Cuts? Bad. Taxes? Bad. People are very good at manipulating the facts to suit their agenda.

What makes you say that?

People who talk so confidently like this, really have zero clue, of what they are talking about!

I'm already impacted by the benefits system. Very, very badly. Do you realise my benefits haven't gone up at all in April? But everything has got more expensive? The same last year and the year before and the year before, with only tiny increases that do nothing to cover the cost of living.

Labour is also planning on changing the PIP criteria to exclude many, many genuine claimants.

So don't kid yourself that disabled people on benefits are living the high life or any kind of life. One of my biggest challenges in life is now preventing myself from malnutrition and a very low BMI. If you want to see what it's like, your budget for food this month is £40.

Oh and please be sure to make your food wearing a thick padded pair of gloves while also stopping to remove them and hit them your hands hard with a wooden spoon before putting the gloves back on to continue, so you can recreate how easy it is for me to make anything from scratch. I can't make it and I can't buy it, means I simply don't eat that mealtime.

If you genuinely need them then you’re not going to be impacted by the changes to the benefits system.

I genuinely need them and I'm already dirt poor.

I think some better off people like to believe that the poor are undeserving because it absolves them of guilt at their disproportionality nicer lifestyle and tax avoidance.

Yep. Can't wait for my council tax to go through the roof. Can't wait for the safety net to disappear causing even more anxiety.. I have long term health issues and can only work part time (just manage without claiming benefits)

A recent FOI found that something like 90% of claimants will lose PIP when the changes come into force.

What about those who want to work but can't get a job because so many companies aren't taking on new staff ?
The nmw was a good idea but the rest of it seems to have put employers off and it is damaging for smaller businesses. Not your finest hour Rachel.

Maybe ask yourself why all the propaganda about the disabled and the poor is constantly being fed to us? Maybe because if we look closely it’s not the poor that’s fleecing the country at all.

That would be too uncomfortable for some people. It is more palatable to believe that it is poor, disabled, and immigrants that are the real problem, instead of looking to the rich, who are creaming everything off, for them, and theirs.

Doesn't that indicate there's something wrong with the lowest paid wages?. Given the tremendous disparity between highest incomes and lowest?

I agree with universal basic income.

I’d also do more to encourage an active civil society through investment in volunteering.

The thing is that people who have no money can’t contribute to the local economy so businesses suffer. They also become sick and need healthcare etc. it’s a vicious circle.

People keep saying that the burden will fall on Social Services.

It won't.

Social services can't even remotely fill the current need.

It means more women giving up work and being dependent on men, or more neglect.

Why can't people see this? Given the number of neglected children already, a few of whom actually die and many more who are damaged for life?

It is rather unrealistic to expect tax payers to keep bankrolling shirkers on more and more generous benefits. Thd whole system needs to be overhauled. Does any other country have this system of people working the fewest hours or not working at all getting more money than full time working people. I doubt it.

thats the thing at some point any company will need only so many people or staff,. eg years ago farmers could use eg 30 people for the farm land, now its one tractor and 3/4 time saved etc

but where are all these job roles and companys going to come from ?

Universal basic income would level things up and leave a safety net for those who are less well off.

Come on, this is the Guardian. They have a political point to push (as do other papers) and they are not ever, ever going to argue that a smaller welfare state is a good thing.

I suppose it depends who’s responsibility these things are, is everything the responsibility of the government and therefore their “thing” to cover the cost for, and also who you’re talking about.

Those who do genuinely need them will be unaffected, there was nothing to suggest that money is going to be taken from those who absolutely need it. But there is a movement to prevent people who actually could be working from claiming, those people will then start working and so the bill is reduced.

Provided they are also going to put support in place for helping people back into work then although short term there will be some impact, long term there won’t be. Those who genuinely can’t work will still receive their benefits, those who can work will be working. There will be an adjustment period, as with anything, because this has been allowed to spiral out of control, but the other side will come and hopefully there will be a better balance.

It feels like our whole welfare society model is collapsing due to a combination of factors, ageing population, people not willing to pay a fair wage and importing unskilled immigrants and their families to do all the dirty work for us etc etc - the whole population feels entitled from top to bottom.
My feeling is that cost of living is changing people’s behaviours in the middle and at the top of the income scale in the younger generations and there just won’t be the money to go around for a full welfare state. As we have mass immigration from poorer countries who do not have a welfare state and come here for it, not sure what we should do. One option is close borders and pay all and everyone for actual work a fair wage but apparently that is now considered right wing. The other option is to just let it call play its course pretty much but it means those who can and are strong and young and with high earning potential are leaving to other countries where they get to keep more of their wage and pay their way is cheaper for them.

Yes I agree. I also read somewhere that apparently people over state pension age who are in receipt of PIP aren't going to be affected so these will no doubt carry on spending the benefit money they receive on cleaners, gardeners etc Obviously from next November we will start to see a lot not awarded PIP. The worry also will be if those get the LCWRA of UC taken away too. You can't take potentially 1k in benefits per month away from large numbers of people and not expect it to affect the economy - this will be massive. However I do think changes need to be made to PIP asap. The real problem is that it has been allowed to spiral so much out of control in the first place.

Yes but I'm asking a genuine question. What do we do? How do we get people who can work to work?