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Benefit cuts will cost the economy.

614 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 29/04/2025 08:33

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/labours-benefit-cuts-will-cost-uk-economy-billions-charity-says

Interesting article which repeats what some of us have been saying about the likely consequences of the proposed measures, including increased pressure on services.

Labour’s benefit cuts will cost UK economy billions, charity says

Trussell report finds that higher levels of poverty mean Britain is losing out on £38bn a year of potential output

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/labours-benefit-cuts-will-cost-uk-economy-billions-charity-says

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 13:36

There is publicly available data on people who receive PiP.

i recently applied for and received PIP (I use a wheelchair following an accident, hope that’s ok with people).

the data is actually quite interesting. It’s available in excel format so you can play around with it yourself.

This is the link and then click through to stat explore.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/personal-independence-payment-statistics

A lot of what people are posting is just not factually true if you look at the actual data. It’s a nice afternoon and I fancy spending it in the garden buggering about with data so I will post some follow ups later as I really do hate people who post hatred about disabled people.

Personal Independence Payment statistics

Statistics on Personal Independence Payment new claims and Disability Living Allowance claim reassessments.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/personal-independence-payment-statistics

Hyteffsxg · 29/04/2025 13:35

PinkPonyPugClub · 29/04/2025 12:51

Listen to yourself and be ashamed.

Those aren't meals, are they? Or should someone just scoff 30 apples a day and stop complaining?

I was just wondering why PP starved herself if she can't cook.

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 13:34

MistressoftheDarkSide · 29/04/2025 13:30

They're probably bragging about it when they exercise their free goat whilst driving their state provided Lamborghini......🙄

No Lamborghinis but all housing and bills covered and seemingly a generous amount left to live on. More than many get working. I know you’ll all pretend this never happens, but like I said, I’m happy to show proof and maths if desired. I suspect you don’t want me to though.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 13:34

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 13:31

They regularly post on a FB group we have - wanting to know payment dates, whether things are being cut, whether they qualify for a larger house now they have an extra baby etc.

Do you think maybe they’re trolling?

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 13:31

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 13:26

How do you know the financial details of these 5 or 6 people?

They regularly post on a FB group we have - wanting to know payment dates, whether things are being cut, whether they qualify for a larger house now they have an extra baby etc.

TwentyKittens · 29/04/2025 13:31

Badbadbunny · 29/04/2025 13:24

How do you pay for it? Loads of people will just sit idly and bank the UBI income as it will have to be set at a relatively high level. No one would bother working as the tax rate to pay for it would be ridiculously high, probably 50% income tax. And you'd still have to pay more for disabled people over and above the UBI amount and probably extras for rent allowance, free prescriptions, etc. on top. It sounds good in theory, but fails in the detail and practicalities. It would also be highly inflationary as lots of people will end up immediately better off and start spending money thus stoking inflation. It would also make the balance of payments deficit worse as a lot of people would spend their money on imported goods!

I think some of the reasoning behind it is that means testing costs a fortune to implement, and that the money saved would go a long way towards financing UBI.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 29/04/2025 13:30

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 13:26

How do you know the financial details of these 5 or 6 people?

They're probably bragging about it when they exercise their free goat whilst driving their state provided Lamborghini......🙄

OP posts:
Miley23 · 29/04/2025 13:29

Badbadbunny · 29/04/2025 13:25

@TheDisillusionedAnarchist

Pip is not an out of work benefit. It is paid to disabled individuals whether they’re completely unable to work or earn millions each year.

Well that's the first thing to change. Make it means tested so your millionaires can't claim it!

Agree.

Frequency · 29/04/2025 13:29

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 13:26

How do you know the financial details of these 5 or 6 people?

I've always wondered this. I don't know the ins and outs of my close family's finances yet, many MNetters know exactly how much their neighbor's cat's bestfriend's gardener's cousin gets in PIP.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 13:29

MapCollector · 29/04/2025 13:23

You believe all those posts are real, not fake posts designed to stir up hatred towards disabled people on benefits, is everyone really that naive and gullible.

I’m just waiting to read some reference to “useless eaters”. The vehemence and the misinformation is terrifying.

frozendaisy · 29/04/2025 13:28

The societal contract is rapidly breaking down.

This is what you need to fix.

You work hard, bring up decent kids, don't break the law and in return people have come to expect that they can live in an adequate house and their children, when they come of age, are able to move out, get work, find somewhere of their own to live. Expect a bit of healthcare when required, perhaps a bit of social care at the end of life.

But this has broken down.

What used to be dealt with within a family, older relatives, mental health illness, disabled youngsters, we all now expect the state to fund. And that expectation is bankrupting councils. Creating a workforce that pays tax and "sees" less and less each passing year for their efforts. (Pot holes, no police, littered streets). This is the breakdown of the contract.

People, as a whole, have stopped caring. Olders don't care about struggling children and parents don't care about singles and loneliness. It's dog eat dog and everyone for themselves.

And it seems like an impossible wound to heal.

It will revert to families being expected to look after their own with less and less state financial support. For a while. It will of course swing back again as everything does.

PinkPonyPugClub · 29/04/2025 13:28

Some people just refuse to accept that being disabled costs money, and impedes your ability to make money. No reforms will change that.

These people will get the money eventually, but it'll just be in increased costs to the NHS. Unless they die instead, which sometimes feels like the end goal.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 13:28

TheDisillusionedAnarchist · 29/04/2025 13:20

I am always surprised PIP reforms and work are mentioned in the same sentence

Pip is not an out of work benefit. It is paid to disabled individuals whether they’re completely unable to work or earn millions each year. It has nothing at all to do with work.

The only connection between Pip and work is that Pip likely enables some people with disabilities to access work so it’s reform is likely to increase the number of people with disabilities who are not working and who are therefore on out of work benefits.

You’re absolutely right. You’re howling into the wind, though, if this thread is anything to go by.

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 13:26

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 13:17

Because disabled people are the biggest takers, if you want to phrase it like that. And the profile of disability is very different now and seems to be overwhelmingly self reported and MH conditions.

I know numerous families (5 or 6) who claim over £50,000 per year in benefits, and that doesn’t include the costs of special school, therapies, NHS, and transport. Each family is probably costing the taxpayer somewhere in the region of £150,000 per year, so all together that’s probably just less than £1 million a year. And that’s just on people I know, I don’t even know that many people (have a small friendship circle, wfh, not well known in the local community).

Replicate that across the country and you can see the scale of the issue. Taxpayers aren’t solely there to prop up the disabled and needy, they also want a quality of lives for themselves and that is not selfish.

When councils are leaving rubbish to rot in the street, and public libraries and swimming pools are being closed on a weekly basis, and the roads ruin the suspension in your car because they’re full of unfixed potholes (this happened to my neighbour last week who was left with the bill), yes you’re going to be quietly fuming that 60% of your council tax goes on social care and the benefits bill is increasing by £10 billion per year - where would you suggest we get this money?

How do you know the financial details of these 5 or 6 people?

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 13:26

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 13:17

Because disabled people are the biggest takers, if you want to phrase it like that. And the profile of disability is very different now and seems to be overwhelmingly self reported and MH conditions.

I know numerous families (5 or 6) who claim over £50,000 per year in benefits, and that doesn’t include the costs of special school, therapies, NHS, and transport. Each family is probably costing the taxpayer somewhere in the region of £150,000 per year, so all together that’s probably just less than £1 million a year. And that’s just on people I know, I don’t even know that many people (have a small friendship circle, wfh, not well known in the local community).

Replicate that across the country and you can see the scale of the issue. Taxpayers aren’t solely there to prop up the disabled and needy, they also want a quality of lives for themselves and that is not selfish.

When councils are leaving rubbish to rot in the street, and public libraries and swimming pools are being closed on a weekly basis, and the roads ruin the suspension in your car because they’re full of unfixed potholes (this happened to my neighbour last week who was left with the bill), yes you’re going to be quietly fuming that 60% of your council tax goes on social care and the benefits bill is increasing by £10 billion per year - where would you suggest we get this money?

Nobody in affordable housing would ever have a benefits income of £50k. I’ve seen those kinds of calculations and it’s not possible. The only way it is possible is if a family are paying a private rent of 2k, 2.5k pcm, which is a housing issue not a benefits issue. Very high childcare is cappedon UC, but FT nursery costs can skew a claim upward too. Maybe these people aren’t even telling you the truth when you ask about their incomes?

Im a bit agog that you’re mentioning special school or NHS care as some kind of benefit that families are leaching from the state. Citizens are entitled to use the NHS when they need it. Children are entitled to an education. Those are things that make us a civilised western democracy. How would you like it to differ?

The idea that disability claimants are “overwhelmingly” claiming for MH conditions or that benefits are administered on the basis of claimants self-identifying as disabled is so wrong-headed I don’t know where to start. It’s just not true.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 29/04/2025 13:25

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 13:21

Oh, you mean the made up stories like the one last night from a landlord who found a fictitious document in her tenant's cupboard?

When is MNHQ going to put a stop to the hatred of disabled people on its site?

Don't be ridiculous. It isn't hatred. We're "educating people", don't you know? Or the nasty comments are "sarcasm", don't you know? Which are the ususal two comments I get back from MNHQ whenever I complain. No hatred in sight. Disability isn't the only thing that can be invisible.

That was actual sarcasm, btw.

LadyKenya · 29/04/2025 13:25

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 13:21

Oh, you mean the made up stories like the one last night from a landlord who found a fictitious document in her tenant's cupboard?

When is MNHQ going to put a stop to the hatred of disabled people on its site?

They will have to get in a queue I am afraid!

Badbadbunny · 29/04/2025 13:25

@TheDisillusionedAnarchist

Pip is not an out of work benefit. It is paid to disabled individuals whether they’re completely unable to work or earn millions each year.

Well that's the first thing to change. Make it means tested so your millionaires can't claim it!

Badbadbunny · 29/04/2025 13:24

Motherknowsrest · 29/04/2025 09:52

Universal basic income would level things up and leave a safety net for those who are less well off.

How do you pay for it? Loads of people will just sit idly and bank the UBI income as it will have to be set at a relatively high level. No one would bother working as the tax rate to pay for it would be ridiculously high, probably 50% income tax. And you'd still have to pay more for disabled people over and above the UBI amount and probably extras for rent allowance, free prescriptions, etc. on top. It sounds good in theory, but fails in the detail and practicalities. It would also be highly inflationary as lots of people will end up immediately better off and start spending money thus stoking inflation. It would also make the balance of payments deficit worse as a lot of people would spend their money on imported goods!

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 13:23

TheDisillusionedAnarchist · 29/04/2025 13:20

I am always surprised PIP reforms and work are mentioned in the same sentence

Pip is not an out of work benefit. It is paid to disabled individuals whether they’re completely unable to work or earn millions each year. It has nothing at all to do with work.

The only connection between Pip and work is that Pip likely enables some people with disabilities to access work so it’s reform is likely to increase the number of people with disabilities who are not working and who are therefore on out of work benefits.

Oh please. Don't come on a thread like this and state facts. We only want to know about your neighbour's brother's sister's daughter who claims PIP whilst cartwheeling in the Alps.

TigerRag · 29/04/2025 13:23

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 13:17

Because disabled people are the biggest takers, if you want to phrase it like that. And the profile of disability is very different now and seems to be overwhelmingly self reported and MH conditions.

I know numerous families (5 or 6) who claim over £50,000 per year in benefits, and that doesn’t include the costs of special school, therapies, NHS, and transport. Each family is probably costing the taxpayer somewhere in the region of £150,000 per year, so all together that’s probably just less than £1 million a year. And that’s just on people I know, I don’t even know that many people (have a small friendship circle, wfh, not well known in the local community).

Replicate that across the country and you can see the scale of the issue. Taxpayers aren’t solely there to prop up the disabled and needy, they also want a quality of lives for themselves and that is not selfish.

When councils are leaving rubbish to rot in the street, and public libraries and swimming pools are being closed on a weekly basis, and the roads ruin the suspension in your car because they’re full of unfixed potholes (this happened to my neighbour last week who was left with the bill), yes you’re going to be quietly fuming that 60% of your council tax goes on social care and the benefits bill is increasing by £10 billion per year - where would you suggest we get this money?

And how much of that £10 million is housing benefits and discretionary housing payments paying greedy landlords mortgages?

MapCollector · 29/04/2025 13:23

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 13:18

Many do, I can even provide links from this website proving it.

You believe all those posts are real, not fake posts designed to stir up hatred towards disabled people on benefits, is everyone really that naive and gullible.

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 13:21

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 13:18

Many do, I can even provide links from this website proving it.

Oh, you mean the made up stories like the one last night from a landlord who found a fictitious document in her tenant's cupboard?

When is MNHQ going to put a stop to the hatred of disabled people on its site?

TheDisillusionedAnarchist · 29/04/2025 13:20

I am always surprised PIP reforms and work are mentioned in the same sentence

Pip is not an out of work benefit. It is paid to disabled individuals whether they’re completely unable to work or earn millions each year. It has nothing at all to do with work.

The only connection between Pip and work is that Pip likely enables some people with disabilities to access work so it’s reform is likely to increase the number of people with disabilities who are not working and who are therefore on out of work benefits.

TigerRag · 29/04/2025 13:19

User46576 · 29/04/2025 13:03

Most people claiming disability benefits (or having it claimed on their behalf) do not need specialist equipment. Many don’t require carers either

Many of us do. No idea why you think only a minority do

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