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Benefit cuts will cost the economy.

614 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 29/04/2025 08:33

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/labours-benefit-cuts-will-cost-uk-economy-billions-charity-says

Interesting article which repeats what some of us have been saying about the likely consequences of the proposed measures, including increased pressure on services.

Labour’s benefit cuts will cost UK economy billions, charity says

Trussell report finds that higher levels of poverty mean Britain is losing out on £38bn a year of potential output

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/labours-benefit-cuts-will-cost-uk-economy-billions-charity-says

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Widowerwouldyou · 29/04/2025 15:33

the fact that calculator is called ‘Entitled’ says it all. We have allowed a situation where people assume entitlement.
Like those threads where the OP is thinking of leaving her DH and is urged on to check what ‘benefits she is ‘entitled to’.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 15:30

Vinvertebrate · 29/04/2025 15:21

We claim DLA for DS at middle rate, which is about £300 per month. He has autism and ADHD and needs special food because of ARFID. (He only eats M&S black olives in a jar, one flavour of Innocent smoothie that I have to buy direct from the manufacturer, etc). He also needs clothes in natural fibers with no seams - luckily there are a few businesses supplying this for ASD kids now, but they are not cheap. He also needs adaptations to his bedroom to accommodate his sensory needs, and I buy Melatonin online from the USA so he stays asleep for more than two minutes. He can’t really do playdates or friends so we spend a lot on keeping him entertained at home. He needs one-on-one for any sporting activities because he can’t cope with noise or crowds. It all adds up to way more than £300 a month.

Incidentally, I spent £35,000 of my own money to get him diagnosed in an acceptable timeline, which would have been impossible on the NHS. If DLA is a money-printing racket, I must be missing a trick! 🤷🏻‍♀️

£35k?! Sheesh.

A lot of these cuts and shortages date back to the austerity cuts after the 2008 crash.

It boggles the mind that a Labour government, of all people, can’t see that lack of services is the issue, here.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 15:26

I think you’re quite right @ByBoldOPthat to the extent that benefit bills are being pushed up, it’s dilutes in the NHS, education and affordable housing that’s causing them. It’s what happens when you underfund services. It’s awful.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 15:23

ByBoldOP · 29/04/2025 15:16

My child is a neet - have you tried getting support for children who can't access education.
Years of fighting for adequate education got nowhere. Child will likely never work and need lifelong support.
Irony being if LA had funded the support child needed in primary the outcome could have been very different.

Yes I had a school refuser for a while and CAMHS provision is very thin on the ground, I know. Ageing out of the paediatric system is even worse.

If the situation had carried on longer than it did, though, I think I’d have been frankly pissed off if they had been given PIP. They do have disabilities but they can work nonetheless. I wouldn’t want them to have an unearned income for the disabilities before they’d had the chance to earn their money. I think you need to discourage inertia.

OTOH, I’d have welcomed them signing on 1) to protect their NI record and 2) So they be getting support/pressure from someone other than me.

This is all assuming that nobody is using “NEET” to refer to the ex-special school pupils with moderate to severe needs who can’t get a job for love nor money. Hopefully nobody would be so cruel. I think we need remploy type provision for that group. We are in a public provision desert, currently.

Vinvertebrate · 29/04/2025 15:21

User46576 · 29/04/2025 13:56

According to the government the majority of claims for pip are for non physical disabilities. What “equipment” do you claim these people need?

We claim DLA for DS at middle rate, which is about £300 per month. He has autism and ADHD and needs special food because of ARFID. (He only eats M&S black olives in a jar, one flavour of Innocent smoothie that I have to buy direct from the manufacturer, etc). He also needs clothes in natural fibers with no seams - luckily there are a few businesses supplying this for ASD kids now, but they are not cheap. He also needs adaptations to his bedroom to accommodate his sensory needs, and I buy Melatonin online from the USA so he stays asleep for more than two minutes. He can’t really do playdates or friends so we spend a lot on keeping him entertained at home. He needs one-on-one for any sporting activities because he can’t cope with noise or crowds. It all adds up to way more than £300 a month.

Incidentally, I spent £35,000 of my own money to get him diagnosed in an acceptable timeline, which would have been impossible on the NHS. If DLA is a money-printing racket, I must be missing a trick! 🤷🏻‍♀️

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 15:20

Next,

the statement was

“the ever shrinking number of tax payers”.

the percentage of people in the U.K. paying tax is going up and has for the last couple of years.

data over time here:

https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-data-item/number-taxpayers-and-higher-rate-taxpayers-over-time

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 15:17

next statement:

most medical equipment is supplied free of charge by adult social care.

now data on this is more complicated because there’s a lot of medical equipment out there.

the nhs will assess you for a wheelchair and if they feel you need one they will give you a budget towards it.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalisedcare/personal-health-budgets/personal-wheelchair-budgets/frequently-asked-questions/#will-personal-wheelchair-budgets-be-available-to-everyone-who-has-an-assessment-via-their-nhs-commissioned-wheelchair-service

in my area that budget was about 1.5k which is ok for a manual or an electric but not if you need anything more complicated.

I worked in a school with students with severe physical disabilities and it’s very very common now that families need to fundraise for wheelchairs.

i won’t post any of the appeals by families I worked with but a quick google throws up a lot of appeals for example this one:

https://www.huntspost.co.uk/news/22982061.st-neots-mum-appeals-help-buy-new-wheelchair-son/

this is also the case with adults - a friend of mine has severe MND and is slowly losing control of his muscles (like Stephen Hawking) and they have to pay for customised wheelchairs.

as people get worse and their medical needs change they need different chairs as well.

i’ve never know anyone get support from adult social care for any of this.

(I appreciate this is not strictly data, and that the poster did excempt wheelchairs but honestly they are so expensive. My daughters was 8k and that’s the cheap end)

NHS England » Frequently asked questions

NHS England » Frequently asked questions

https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalisedcare/personal-health-budgets/personal-wheelchair-budgets/frequently-asked-questions/#will-personal-wheelchair-budgets-be-available-to-everyone-who-has-an-assessment-via-their-nhs-commissioned-wheelchair-service

ByBoldOP · 29/04/2025 15:16

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 10:54

It needs an employer-side effort, and a government-side effort be that compulsion or tax breaks or DEI-led recruitment.

Overwhelmingly it is easier to stay in work or resume work after disability, if you’re a professional or have a skill. Employers seem to feel it’s worth making adjustments for a professional with in-demand abilities or qualifications.

The end of the employment market that consists of many NMW employees is less keen to accommodate disabilities.

Historically, the disabled would have been left at home to rot, depending on the voluntary efforts of family. Which was a waste of skills and labour, a demand on the army of unpaid women who used to run everything, and generally a relic of the Victorian era.

Everybody needs food, clothing, shelter. You either have a system that enables nearly everybody to earn their own. Or you have a system that makes modest provision for those that can’t (or aren’t allowed to by capitalism).

PIP has absolutely nothing to do with work. It’s paid based on the difficulty level
a disability causes. That’s written into the criteria.

What has happened, though, is that increasingly, the third party, private sector PIP assessors have simultaneously become informally obsessed with the idea that disabled people in work somehow metaphysically aren’t truly disabled. That was the Tory-era effort to cut PIP by just denying people entitlement by incentivising assessors to pick holes.

Similtaneously, as part of a general societal move to vaguely “be aware” of MH, we are now paying more PIP for anxiety, handing out blue badges for anxiety, and now the discovery has apparently been made that a lot of those new additional people are NEETS. WHO knows whether that’s true? I certainly don’t trust political rhetoric and tax payers who are suddenly referring to all disabled people as “shirkers”.

My child is a neet - have you tried getting support for children who can't access education.
Years of fighting for adequate education got nowhere. Child will likely never work and need lifelong support.
Irony being if LA had funded the support child needed in primary the outcome could have been very different.

nearlylovemyusername · 29/04/2025 15:15

MistressoftheDarkSide · 29/04/2025 09:39

Well, obviously it's complicated..... the wider global economy is struggling due to geopolitics as it stands. There's the whole impact of technology and the speed at which it is changing the face of employment, starting with recruitment which helps weed out many applicatnts before they get the chance to "prove" themselves at interview.

Figures suggest there are fewer vacancies than unemployed people as it stands.

Driving people to destitution then expecting them to slide into gainful employment regardless of circumstance is rather unrealistic. Every proposed solution comes with a problem.

What are your suggestions, given the state of the world we live in?

what are YOUR suggestions?

you say it's all very difficult, yes we all know this.
What do you propose? for ever shrinking number of taxpayers to continue funding ever expanding welfare state?

Frequency · 29/04/2025 15:08

I still want to know where all the jobs are coming from?

There are currently 1.9 job seekers per vacancy. So, almost twice as many job seekers as there are jobs available.

Adding more job seekers to the pool is not going to get more people overall into work because the work is not there, especially when you consider that not all jobs will be open to all job seekers. Some of those vacancies will be highly skilled roles requiring technical certifications, leaving even fewer vacancies for those at the bottom and middle, exactly where the people pushed off of PIP would end up.

Step 1 needs to be creating more jobs via economic growth.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 29/04/2025 15:04

WeylandYutani · 29/04/2025 14:59

@Octavia64 yes I remember a post from someone with ADHD who claims PIP for physical health reasons, but she still had to list all her diagnoses of which ADHD bothered her the least. But she would still be in the PIP for ADHD figures.

Possibly me! ADHD was listed at the top of one of the documents I had, even though I was claiming for a brain tumour and epilepsy. Still count in the ADHD statistics though!

WeylandYutani · 29/04/2025 14:59

@Octavia64 yes I remember a post from someone with ADHD who claims PIP for physical health reasons, but she still had to list all her diagnoses of which ADHD bothered her the least. But she would still be in the PIP for ADHD figures.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 14:58

Hyteffsxg · 29/04/2025 14:54

Back when I was a missguided libertarian I had the view that in the past "the charities and the churches looked after the poor. We didn't need government."

What happened to enlighten you?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 29/04/2025 14:58

Hyteffsxg · 29/04/2025 14:54

Back when I was a missguided libertarian I had the view that in the past "the charities and the churches looked after the poor. We didn't need government."

I have libertarian friends who still believe this in their 50s. They got a bit squirmy when my business folded and I became UC dependent in my 50s, with elderly parent responsibilities, after being widowed, because they had to concede that given my circumstances there wasn't a viable alternative to state support guaranteed to prevent me from ending up under the pier.....

OP posts:
BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 14:58

WeylandYutani · 29/04/2025 14:56

£40k per year for a couple with 2 kids is hardly raking it in. What would a couple both working NMW be on? And they would probably be topped up with UC and rent paid too.
it is comparing apples and oranges.

It turned out the £40k was actually £7k.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 14:57

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 14:56

Next, the statement was:

the majority are for non physical disabilities.

in Jan 25 there were 3.6 million people receiving PIP.

1.4 million had a psychiatric diagnosis.

3.6 - 1.4 is 2.2

so 2.2 million people receiving pip do not have a psychiatric diagnosis of any sort and the majority of claims are for a physical disability.

in addition, as I know from my own claim, they ask you to list all the diagnoses you have ever had. Shortly after my accident I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety.

apparently it’s fairly normal in people who have a major life changing accident and or get a life altering disease to get depressed and anxious.

so quite a lot of those 1.4 million will be people like me who have multiple diagnoses, but actually the main reason for me claiming isn’t anxiety or depression it’s that I had an accident and can’t walk.

photo attached of what the DWP considers psychiatric disorders - note it includes severe learning difficulties and schizophrenia amongst others.

Oh thanks for this. 🙏🏻 I’m going to put the kettle on and settle down to absorb some actual facts.

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 14:56

Next, the statement was:

the majority are for non physical disabilities.

in Jan 25 there were 3.6 million people receiving PIP.

1.4 million had a psychiatric diagnosis.

3.6 - 1.4 is 2.2

so 2.2 million people receiving pip do not have a psychiatric diagnosis of any sort and the majority of claims are for a physical disability.

in addition, as I know from my own claim, they ask you to list all the diagnoses you have ever had. Shortly after my accident I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety.

apparently it’s fairly normal in people who have a major life changing accident and or get a life altering disease to get depressed and anxious.

so quite a lot of those 1.4 million will be people like me who have multiple diagnoses, but actually the main reason for me claiming isn’t anxiety or depression it’s that I had an accident and can’t walk.

photo attached of what the DWP considers psychiatric disorders - note it includes severe learning difficulties and schizophrenia amongst others.

Benefit cuts will cost the economy.
WeylandYutani · 29/04/2025 14:56

£40k per year for a couple with 2 kids is hardly raking it in. What would a couple both working NMW be on? And they would probably be topped up with UC and rent paid too.
it is comparing apples and oranges.

Hyteffsxg · 29/04/2025 14:54

Back when I was a missguided libertarian I had the view that in the past "the charities and the churches looked after the poor. We didn't need government."

PlutoCat · 29/04/2025 14:53

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 14:45

Year! Ffs, this is infuriating

So why did you put that down alongside the monthly figures without bothering to specify that the £4k figure was an annual one?

It is indeed infuriating when people deliberately misrepresent something and then get snarky when people dispute it.

Benefit cuts will cost the economy.
RatalieTatalie · 29/04/2025 14:47

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 14:46

Hence all the ‘what do I spend my PIP/DLA on’ threads on here?

Can you link to one? I've not seen any, but that doesn't mean they don't exist obviously

RatalieTatalie · 29/04/2025 14:46

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 14:45

Year! Ffs, this is infuriating

It's only infuriating because you laid it out in a ridiculous way. No frequency attributed to any of the benefits. You rounded CB up to a monthly cost, when it's paid 4 weekly, but PIP which is also paid 4 weekly was put down as an annual figure.

I don't think you can be aghast that people are confused.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 29/04/2025 14:46

Badbadbunny · 29/04/2025 14:42

But benefits aren't a kind of compensation for being disabled, they're to cover the additional costs of being disabled. There's quite a difference!

For me, a large part of the additional costs of being disabled is the inability to work and pay for basic living costs that way.

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 14:46

Daughterillness · 29/04/2025 14:35

Except you’re wrong - it may be a comfortable life on that amount if you didn’t have the disabilities that qualify you / your dc for the dla and pip. Having illness and disability makes living much more expensive. So whilst it may look a lot on paper the added expenses due to having disabilities means that this type of family are likely still struggling.

Hence all the ‘what do I spend my PIP/DLA on’ threads on here?