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To not understand how people fund their lives and feel a bit jealous?

614 replies

Travelenthusiast · 28/04/2025 08:23

Just that really. Mid-30s and we have what I have always seen as a healthy income of £180k per annum (obviously been lower when we were younger and increased over time), and had some family help - about £50k to buy our first house several years ago.

And i’m not complaining about our quality of life- I know we are lucky and can afford a good holiday every year, and a more expensive/ luxury holiday occasionally. DS does a few extra-curricular activities, we don’t have to worry about the food shop total (we aren't extravagant at all) and can afford to eat out a few times a month etc. And I know we are lucky as I grew up in a poor family and understand the stress and implications.

But we have a very modest 3-bed house (with a big mortgage), our car is ten years old and there’s no way we could replace it, we can rarely afford to replace clothes and shoes for us (of course do for DS), days out are thought through to reduce cost, would make pack lunches to take into work and don’t buy shop coffees, we could not afford private school, and often we cut out the eating out to add to savings instead- basically £ is not abundant. And we are relatively careful financially and not big spenders generally. None of this is me saying our life is bad- I know we are really luckily, but just trying to give an idea of limitations / life.

We do live in SE commuter belt (not london) where everything is very expensive.

But we are surrounded by families who have so much more, so apparently effortlessly. We are genuinely one of the only local families without a 4x4 (i know cry me a river 🤣). How do others have it all and have the big house, the new car, endless holidays, SAHM often, the new clothes, meals out, lots of savings? Is it simply that they earn much more? I know we are lucky but I just don’t understand how so many can be so wealthy? Could most of our network really have a household income over £200k?!

OP posts:
InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 20:03

Lauren1983 · 30/04/2025 19:59

Why is my real world situation not valid to you? I am not talking about tax laws. I am saying what our income is and that we only receive child benefit but you seem fixated on the one particular scenario you have posted. If yours is a reason to state minimum wage workers are significantly better off than ones on £180k why is mine not one to say that isn't true.

This is beyond tiresome now.

Your personal perception of your situation does not overrule objective reality. Facts are freely available from the ONS and .gov.uk or you can call HMRC/ DWP to check the rates if you don’t believe any of the publicly available information.

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 20:00

sellotapestucktomyarse · 30/04/2025 19:58

Are you joking too??!! Try saying that to someone on low income / minimum wage. Yes we’re al suffering with the economic climate as it is but believe me, 180k a year is NOT a struggle. Change your lifestyle. Simple

Edited

Am I “hoping too??!!”?

About what? What is this meant to mean?

Incomprehensible.

Lauren1983 · 30/04/2025 19:59

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:33

Yeah, try giving HMRC a call and telling them that “your actual life” and what you think overrules the tax laws of the country. Let us know how you get on.

Why is my real world situation not valid to you? I am not talking about tax laws. I am saying what our income is and that we only receive child benefit but you seem fixated on the one particular scenario you have posted. If yours is a reason to state minimum wage workers are significantly better off than ones on £180k why is mine not one to say that isn't true.

sellotapestucktomyarse · 30/04/2025 19:58

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:15

How embarrassing for you that you clearly have zero understanding of the well-documented economic issue that the OP described, which multiple independent economic studies have concluded is one of the key challenges facing our country.

Are you joking too??!! Try saying that to someone on low income / minimum wage. Yes we’re al suffering with the economic climate as it is but believe me, 180k a year is NOT a struggle. Change your lifestyle. Simple

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:57

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 19:48

Think it's pretty obvious what I meant to anyone with a crumb of reading comprehension.

Every time I see someone mention a family getting thousands of pounds in benefits it always turns out there's more to the story such as the family having numerous disabled children. But then posters like yourself act like everyone on low income gets all that money in benefits. Not sure how that's me "attacking disabled people" ?

But I'm sure you just enjoy being offended over anything and everything.

Same goes for the high earners I've said on almost every comment I've made I don't resent people with a lot of money I just resent being told that I'm richer than them because I "get free stuff and loads of benefits" when I literally don't

All of this I obvious to anyone reading this thread. Enjoy your evening

Yet you called my posts “horse shit” and started ranting about “ten disabled children” when none of my posts mentioned disability, at all.

All of the numbers I provided were from the latest available data about housing and childcare costs and the UK tax and benefits rates and thresholds set in law.

All of my posts were about working parents providing for children. None of them included any disability allowances/ disabled parents/ non-working parents/ disabled children. Hence my bafflement at why you’d make such unpleasant comments about disabled children even when it had zero relevance to the numbers in my post that you apparently dispute, yet won’t explain which ones you believe are wrong or provide any evidence to support these assertions.

All I see is a lot of anger about anybody who might get something you don’t - even disabled children, whom those of us who are net taxpayers want to support and subsidise more than we subsidise you because they need more help than you - and a lot of anger against those who are subsidising your family because you are furious that they earn more than you and think that you should be able to insult them if they ever express any worry about their own finances.

All very distasteful, and counterproductive, and exemplifying precisely what is wrong with UK society.

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 19:48

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:43

Your posts about disabled people:

17:26

“It's probably a family with ten disabled children.”

18:25

“ Well all I'll say is I've seen posters on other threads make similar assertions while failing to mention it's a family with numerous disabled children getting disability benefits.”

Your posts about your spite and anger at people who earn more than you are too numerous for me to have time to go back and quote, as I do have other things to do today, but are right here on the thread for everyone to see.

Edited

Think it's pretty obvious what I meant to anyone with a crumb of reading comprehension.

Every time I see someone mention a family getting thousands of pounds in benefits it always turns out there's more to the story such as the family having numerous disabled children. But then posters like yourself act like everyone on low income gets all that money in benefits. Not sure how that's me "attacking disabled people" ?

But I'm sure you just enjoy being offended over anything and everything.

Same goes for the high earners I've said on almost every comment I've made I don't resent people with a lot of money I just resent being told that I'm richer than them because I "get free stuff and loads of benefits" when I literally don't

All of this I obvious to anyone reading this thread. Enjoy your evening

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:48

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 19:39

I've already told you our household income is 35k and the only benefit I get is child benefit which is only 25 a week. I've told you you have to earn less than 7k to get free school meals.

And you're still hellbent on insisting someone on 180k is worse off than someone on less than half of that because of "free stuff".
You're the one not engaging with the numbers you clearly have no idea just how low your income has to be to get all this "free stuff"

All you've done so far is go off on emotional rants accusing me of attacking disabled people? I think that says all we need to know

Edited

If you disagree with the numbers from the ONS or the tax thresholds or rates per the numbers I’ve quoted then please specify which ones you think are incorrect.

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:43

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 19:36

And what have I said that's made you think I resent disabled people or wealthy people?
Made it quite clear in practically every one of my comments that I don't resent people earning more than me I just resent being told by someone that earns 4x as much as me that I'm somehow richer than them because "I must get free stuff and benefits". I only came on this thread to say it's bullshit. That's quite literally the only point I've made here

Your posts about disabled people:

17:26

“It's probably a family with ten disabled children.”

18:25

“ Well all I'll say is I've seen posters on other threads make similar assertions while failing to mention it's a family with numerous disabled children getting disability benefits.”

Your posts about your spite and anger at people who earn more than you are too numerous for me to have time to go back and quote, as I do have other things to do today, but are right here on the thread for everyone to see.

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 19:39

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:35

Lovely. More personal insults and still very evidently you have zero wish to engage with the numbers.

Your posts speak for themselves.

I've already told you our household income is 35k and the only benefit I get is child benefit which is only 25 a week. I've told you you have to earn less than 7k to get free school meals.

And you're still hellbent on insisting someone on 180k is worse off than someone on less than half of that because of "free stuff".
You're the one not engaging with the numbers you clearly have no idea just how low your income has to be to get all this "free stuff"

All you've done so far is go off on emotional rants accusing me of attacking disabled people? I think that says all we need to know

katkintreats · 30/04/2025 19:38

Travelenthusiast · 28/04/2025 08:23

Just that really. Mid-30s and we have what I have always seen as a healthy income of £180k per annum (obviously been lower when we were younger and increased over time), and had some family help - about £50k to buy our first house several years ago.

And i’m not complaining about our quality of life- I know we are lucky and can afford a good holiday every year, and a more expensive/ luxury holiday occasionally. DS does a few extra-curricular activities, we don’t have to worry about the food shop total (we aren't extravagant at all) and can afford to eat out a few times a month etc. And I know we are lucky as I grew up in a poor family and understand the stress and implications.

But we have a very modest 3-bed house (with a big mortgage), our car is ten years old and there’s no way we could replace it, we can rarely afford to replace clothes and shoes for us (of course do for DS), days out are thought through to reduce cost, would make pack lunches to take into work and don’t buy shop coffees, we could not afford private school, and often we cut out the eating out to add to savings instead- basically £ is not abundant. And we are relatively careful financially and not big spenders generally. None of this is me saying our life is bad- I know we are really luckily, but just trying to give an idea of limitations / life.

We do live in SE commuter belt (not london) where everything is very expensive.

But we are surrounded by families who have so much more, so apparently effortlessly. We are genuinely one of the only local families without a 4x4 (i know cry me a river 🤣). How do others have it all and have the big house, the new car, endless holidays, SAHM often, the new clothes, meals out, lots of savings? Is it simply that they earn much more? I know we are lucky but I just don’t understand how so many can be so wealthy? Could most of our network really have a household income over £200k?!

Haven’t read the full thread, but the answer is inherited wealth.

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 19:36

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:27

I find these constant attacks on people with disabilities rather disgusting, to be frank. This post had nothing to do with disabilities at all, did it @Samslaundry? Yet you had to throw that in. It’s a perfect example of what I’ve been saying throughout: this tendency to hate anybody with a lower income than you (“how dare they get help that I don’t just because they’re disabled? It’s not faaaaaaaiiiir”) or a higher income than you (“TAX THEM TO DEATH! 100% marginal tax rate is NOT ENOUGH!”).

And that attitude is precisely why the UK economy and society is screwed. You’ve expressed perfectly the exact mentality I was referring to that has driven and continues to drive this and will drive it off the cliff before long.

And what have I said that's made you think I resent disabled people or wealthy people?
Made it quite clear in practically every one of my comments that I don't resent people earning more than me I just resent being told by someone that earns 4x as much as me that I'm somehow richer than them because "I must get free stuff and benefits". I only came on this thread to say it's bullshit. That's quite literally the only point I've made here

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:35

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 19:32

Lol talk about twisting what I said. Any excuse to be offended over something aye. Where the fuck did I attack disabled people 😂

If you really are such a highly intelligent gods gift to the country tax payer why is your reading comprehension so poor?

Lovely. More personal insults and still very evidently you have zero wish to engage with the numbers.

Your posts speak for themselves.

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:33

Lauren1983 · 30/04/2025 18:13

How on Earth can a household on £180k be poorer than one on £30k?!

You are posting facts and figures but I am posting about my actual life. Not figures from a government website. The OP of this thread has posted about a holiday they are planning for £15k. I don't begrude them having that but do you really think I could afford a holiday like that on my income?!

Yeah, try giving HMRC a call and telling them that “your actual life” and what you think overrules the tax laws of the country. Let us know how you get on.

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 19:32

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:27

I find these constant attacks on people with disabilities rather disgusting, to be frank. This post had nothing to do with disabilities at all, did it @Samslaundry? Yet you had to throw that in. It’s a perfect example of what I’ve been saying throughout: this tendency to hate anybody with a lower income than you (“how dare they get help that I don’t just because they’re disabled? It’s not faaaaaaaiiiir”) or a higher income than you (“TAX THEM TO DEATH! 100% marginal tax rate is NOT ENOUGH!”).

And that attitude is precisely why the UK economy and society is screwed. You’ve expressed perfectly the exact mentality I was referring to that has driven and continues to drive this and will drive it off the cliff before long.

Lol talk about twisting what I said. Any excuse to be offended over something aye. Where the fuck did I attack disabled people 😂

If you really are such a highly intelligent gods gift to the country tax payer why is your reading comprehension so poor?

RosesAndHellebores · 30/04/2025 19:29

@InPraiseOfIdleness whilst I don’t necessarily disagree with your post which I thought was prescient, by the way, you made the calculation based on one person earning, whereas I believe the op’s situation is that there are two earners, contributing £90k a piece. I wonder how the numbers look on that basis?

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:27

I find these constant attacks on people with disabilities rather disgusting, to be frank. This post had nothing to do with disabilities at all, did it @Samslaundry? Yet you had to throw that in. It’s a perfect example of what I’ve been saying throughout: this tendency to hate anybody with a lower income than you (“how dare they get help that I don’t just because they’re disabled? It’s not faaaaaaaiiiir”) or a higher income than you (“TAX THEM TO DEATH! 100% marginal tax rate is NOT ENOUGH!”).

And that attitude is precisely why the UK economy and society is screwed. You’ve expressed perfectly the exact mentality I was referring to that has driven and continues to drive this and will drive it off the cliff before long.

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:23

Samslaundry · 30/04/2025 17:26

I'm not angry, nor do I hate anyone richer or poorer than me, are you confusing me with another poster?

You've pulled some example out of your ass, who on minimum wage has that much money after housing costs? It's probably a family with ten disabled children. That's how I've seen similar posters to yourself mislead the thread into thinking everyone earning less than 50k gets bucket loads of benefits before.

Also it's not only rich people who have mortgages, I have a mortgage to pay too and benefits only help out people who rent with their housing costs.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything but admittedly I do resent being told by people earning three or even four times as much money as me that I'm somehow richer than them because I apparently get loads of benefits and fre stuff when I don't and most of these posters are talking out their ass.

Edited

And I didn’t include any disabilities or disabled children in those calculations, by the way, despite your insinuation. Those calculations were all based on working parents, no disabled parents or children at all.

K8Davidson · 30/04/2025 19:17

Like others, I really don’t understand this at all. Do you have a lot of consumer debt, or something? Very puzzling.

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:15

sellotapestucktomyarse · 30/04/2025 18:39

Wow! The fact you have actually been so entitled to type this out and think it’s acceptable to post is unreal! Take your 180k and 50k deposit for your house and give your head a shake. I would 100% ask for this to be removed because it is extremely embarrassing for you 🤡

Edited

How embarrassing for you that you clearly have zero understanding of the well-documented economic issue that the OP described, which multiple independent economic studies have concluded is one of the key challenges facing our country.

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:14

Ratisshortforratthew · 30/04/2025 19:03

exactly. I don’t earn 180k but I am a higher rate taxpayer. I’ve never worked a 60 hour week in my life. I choose to have a tiny cheap flat instead of a big house so I’ve got more disposable income. I’m self-employed and work a 3-4 day week out of choice rather than working 5 days and earning more. I take about 10 weeks holiday a year and travel long haul several times a year, often for extended periods. Yes, I could go full time in a 100k+ role and upsize into a house but… why would I do that when I have loads of disposable income and more importantly, time and freedom?

If people genuinely believe they’d have more disposable income on minimum wage (absolutely howling at that, btw) then what’s stopping you quitting your job and getting a low-paid, stress-free, junior one? even in the country’s most expensive areas you don’t have to make expensive choices. Get a terrace instead of a detached or a flat instead of a house. State instead of private school. Don’t run 2 new cars. Have fewer kids. Absolutely zero sympathy for people who spend all their income on stuff that costs a lot then moan they haven’t got enough left over.

It’s an extremely different situation if you don’t have children. The problem with this system - unlike the tax systems in pretty much every other developed country - is that it doesn’t adjust tax based on whether you do. Hence the ridiculous situations outlined in my original post.

Every other developed country of whose tax systems I have some knowledge taxes incomes on a household unit basis, and provides additional, universal tax allowances if you have children. That is what is wrong here.

If that was rectified then you might find more people finding a worthwhile reward for their work even if they have children, as you do without any. If we don’t do that then we’re going to soon find ourselves with a very small number of young people, which will not bode well particularly for anybody expecting the Government to honour its promises for state pensions or the public sector pension scheme which are unfunded (not all are, but teachers, fire service, police, NHS etc all are ponzi schemes of this nature which will fall down on their face before long and literally be unpayable if the country continues to make it so financially difficult for people to provide a family with a decent life even with a professional job and what - on paper - should be an excellent salary).

And that’s aside from the fact that if we continue this brain drain then the national IQ will drop even lower than it is currently, which will make it even more unlikely that these problems will ever be fixed. At some point we’ll pass the point of no return.

InPraiseOfIdleness · 30/04/2025 19:06

Lauren1983 · 30/04/2025 18:42

Well maybe all these high earners should give up their jobs if they have a minimum wage lifestyle? I am not being goady but if people are genuinely breaking their backs in extremely stressful jobs purely to pay the state they should stop.

We are low income. We live in a small 2 bedroom house and don't even have a back garden. Our car is 13 years old. We don't have holidays. I rarely buy new clothes etc etc BUT we aren't in debt, we eat out a couple of times (only pub grub) we have several streaming subscriptions, I don't particularly budget on food.

If there are people on £180k looking at my list in envy as they can only dream of these things please give up your job and look for a minimum wage one. Your health is more important. Genuinely.

They are cutting their hours to part time to avoid working so hard for minimal financial benefit, or emigrating, or retiring early. That’s exactly my point.

Net result:

  1. lower tax revenues, services decline because funding cuts have to be made/ national debt goes up even further and more money is spent on the interest (£100bn a year now) so more service cuts because we have to pay this from the remaining, lower tax revenues, or further cuts to benefits i.e. everyone gets poorer;

  2. no money for investment in infrastructure/ education therefore we have ever decreasing productivity levels;

  3. tax rates have to keep going up so very little investment to plug the enormous trade deficit exacerbated by Brexit which equals higher inflation because we import lots of essential goods like food and fuel which are priced in dollars therefore devaluation of GBP makes us even poorer but we can’t even capitalise on this through higher exports because of Brexit and now Trumpian trade barriers;

  4. as a result of 3), also absolutely no incentive for anybody to start a business in the UK. No stable economic environment, no free trade access to our closest trading partners anymore, extremely high energy and facilities costs and minimal infrastructure, then any profits you make will be highly taxed;

  5. resulting mass exodus of skilled young qualified professionals who could earn three times their salary with far lower taxes in other countries, and of successful entrepreneurs who create jobs, leading to skills shortages (then people moan about immigration when we have to entice people to come here to plug the gaps).

Please explain how this is sensible economic policy.

Ratisshortforratthew · 30/04/2025 19:03

Lauren1983 · 30/04/2025 18:42

Well maybe all these high earners should give up their jobs if they have a minimum wage lifestyle? I am not being goady but if people are genuinely breaking their backs in extremely stressful jobs purely to pay the state they should stop.

We are low income. We live in a small 2 bedroom house and don't even have a back garden. Our car is 13 years old. We don't have holidays. I rarely buy new clothes etc etc BUT we aren't in debt, we eat out a couple of times (only pub grub) we have several streaming subscriptions, I don't particularly budget on food.

If there are people on £180k looking at my list in envy as they can only dream of these things please give up your job and look for a minimum wage one. Your health is more important. Genuinely.

exactly. I don’t earn 180k but I am a higher rate taxpayer. I’ve never worked a 60 hour week in my life. I choose to have a tiny cheap flat instead of a big house so I’ve got more disposable income. I’m self-employed and work a 3-4 day week out of choice rather than working 5 days and earning more. I take about 10 weeks holiday a year and travel long haul several times a year, often for extended periods. Yes, I could go full time in a 100k+ role and upsize into a house but… why would I do that when I have loads of disposable income and more importantly, time and freedom?

If people genuinely believe they’d have more disposable income on minimum wage (absolutely howling at that, btw) then what’s stopping you quitting your job and getting a low-paid, stress-free, junior one? even in the country’s most expensive areas you don’t have to make expensive choices. Get a terrace instead of a detached or a flat instead of a house. State instead of private school. Don’t run 2 new cars. Have fewer kids. Absolutely zero sympathy for people who spend all their income on stuff that costs a lot then moan they haven’t got enough left over.

Lauren1983 · 30/04/2025 18:46

I know people will think my post is a piss take but I am being serious. We work so we can live in a little house we will own one day, so we can buy food, so we can put the heating on, so we can have a few treats. We don't work for any moral reasons. People should not be stressing themselves out purely to keep the state going out of some sort of perverse duty.

Lauren1983 · 30/04/2025 18:42

WatermelonLolly · 30/04/2025 18:26

“Having a go at the people who are paying the taxes which provide your services which you are nowhere near funding your own use of (even if you don’t claim benefits) isn’t going to make you better off. People aren’t going to study for years and take on tens of thousands of pounds of debt and work long hours in stressful jobs and sacrifice time with their own families to fund things for everyone else if they can never also achieve a lifestyle above that they could achieve on minimum wage, as a result of that extra effort.”

Spot on ……I’d be interested if anyone disagrees with this and why?

Well maybe all these high earners should give up their jobs if they have a minimum wage lifestyle? I am not being goady but if people are genuinely breaking their backs in extremely stressful jobs purely to pay the state they should stop.

We are low income. We live in a small 2 bedroom house and don't even have a back garden. Our car is 13 years old. We don't have holidays. I rarely buy new clothes etc etc BUT we aren't in debt, we eat out a couple of times (only pub grub) we have several streaming subscriptions, I don't particularly budget on food.

If there are people on £180k looking at my list in envy as they can only dream of these things please give up your job and look for a minimum wage one. Your health is more important. Genuinely.

sellotapestucktomyarse · 30/04/2025 18:39

Wow! The fact you have actually been so entitled to type this out and think it’s acceptable to post is unreal! Take your 180k and 50k deposit for your house and give your head a shake. I would 100% ask for this to be removed because it is extremely embarrassing for you 🤡