Finding it hard not to resent friend on benefits

You are such a bloody delight aren't you. ? So only the " upwardly mobile" should have kids now then? How does in work in my relative s case then? She's 33. So had some savings etc Been married for 9 years. Works full time.when not on maternity leave. Husband was freelance but difficult to keep contracts when I'll from cancer treatment. But there is a thing called paying to live. And lately it's become more expensive

I noticed that you didn't answer the question on whether my relative should've had an abortion so we wouldn't need maternity leave and no be earning while husband was ill

Not the preserve of the wealthy, but the preserve of people at any socioeconomic level who plan, save, delay gratification and show some decent level of prudence in not mating with useless assholes.

If someone really wants to be a parent, they have 12 years between school and age 30 to properly set themselves up for parenthood. Job, education , partner, savings. If they can’t demonstrate moderate competence and upward mobility in TWELVE years, why would we want them producing offspring?

You’re not her friend so don’t pretend to be and end the ‘friendship’ ASAP.

I've actually just given up work to look after DS until I can get him into nursery, (waiting lists round here are horrendous) and I am shit scared they're going to sanction me. Single mum on UC in a HA flat, not what I wanted for myself or DS, but his father is being a dick. (I posted about being on my own at Christmas in 2023, when I was pregnant, and how lonely I felt, he did pop back into my life to be at the birth, saw us a few times, then fucked off again for months, and is now threatening to off himself because I got CMS involved.) I'd rather be working and I'm really sad about leaving my job, but I can't make the logistics work. Financially there's ways around it, because if you're on UC they'll help you with childcare costs.
Oh, and I worked in retail, so not especially well paid. If we're going to get into the whole thing of only being able to have kids if you can afford X, Y and/or Z, then having children is going to become the preserve of the wealthy and our birth rate is going to nosedive. So who's going to be looking after all the rich people when they get old?

Money can do a lot of things for you, but it can't make you a nice person. Quite the opposite, it seems.*

I think being insulated from the common herd makes it easier to see yourself as a kind of superior species to the rest of humanity. Having to muck in and rub shoulders with the rest of us means you're going to hear more stories, understand that things aren't so black and white, develop some empathy.

*Not all rich people, of course just most of them Plenty of humble philanthropists out there, although I guess they wouldn't be on this thread calling a woman whose husband left her with 4 kids under 7 and shock horror only works 15 hours a week a feckless leech who can't stop popping out babies.

She's a good mum. That's what she is and she's doing her best for her kids by the sounds of it.

Wow. But not everyone has a super high paying job no matter how hard they work to get substantial savings, expensive ( if not impossible) income protection insurance etc. And if you " limit " your family to 2 kids how do you guarantee baby 2 isn't twins or even triplets. And what if one of the kids is badly disabled and you can't work as is seems childcare is very near impossible for severely disabled children.

A joint income of 50k is perfectly possible to bring up a couple of kids ( and very normal)

All the stuff you stated is looking at things from a very privileged position. But the majority of people can't afford all this stuff as well as living.

Maybe my relative should've aborted her baby when her husband was diagnosed with cancer so she didn't need time off for maternity. Would that be your solution?

Yet all that planning and being so responsible doesn't seem to have made you happy.🫤 Instead your posts communicate bitterness, anger, resentment and illogical judgement of other people's lives.

Good for you for making all the "right" decisions. It's clearly paid off, but I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for you.

That's what contingency planning is for. Substantial savings, income protection insurance, a backup income stream, life insurance on both parents, living below one's means,limiting family size, etc.

Divorce, disability, death, illness, job loss, economic recession, cost of living increases, etc are not uncommon; most people's lifetimes include some combination of the above. Failing to prepare for adverse scenarios is foolish. Especially if offspring are involved.

When I lived on benefits I managed to stretch my money much better than some of my friends who were always borrowing money to get to the end of the week. I think you should end this friendship and stick with people you are glad to see doing well

And I suppose your circumstances could never possibly change either

Don't get drawn in to this bad faith bullshit. Seriously.

I wouldn’t have kids if I couldn’t afford to house them. That’s rock-bottom basic decency.

I'm not saying anyone should be left to languish on benefits - I worked for years trying to boost youth employability. Of course I recognise that people are better working in terms of mental health or empowerment.

My point is simply that for some that will be a long process and the benefits system needs to work for the interim while that work is being completed. Especially since the money for services that would have filled this gap previously is has been drastically cut. You can't take away people's benefits but not offer resources to support them into work either- it needs to work together. I'm not in England but I am in UK and the numbers of yp going into care here are definitely increasing as are the number of young people being placed in unsuitable or unregulated placements as a result. And yes I would say that there has been an ongoing reduction in appropriate early intervention work since covid mainly due to a trust wide staffing crisis. The threshold for accessing ss support has definitely been increased and when people are left to it, there will be more families reaching crisis point. But financial hardship will only ever inflate this.

I'm not suggesting that getting young people into work is creating social ills at all. I'm suggesting that poverty is. And removing money from people without a suitable alternative, holistic pathway to work will increase rates of poverty. Ultimately there needs to be an uplift in wages overall but that's coming from above so there's no point in sending blame down the ladder. And so many employability supports are so focused on getting young people into employment that we forget that young people also need easier and more flexible access to education.

Would anyone care to swap my Moderate Cerebral Palsy and bipolar disorder for my enhanced PIP and ESA??
If not, Please do enlighten me!

So we need a benefits system that supports the most disadvantaged and that usually means making sure that we aren't overly restrictive in how financing is allocated.

I know very well about the impact of trauma, poverty and disadvantage and about the challenges in balancing everything. And no it’s not a level
playing field, it never has been. The levels of young people not in education, employment or training are ever increasing - meaning young people aren’t successfully transitioning to the work place, which is needed not just economically but also from a health and welfare point of view - it’s not good for young people (or indeed anyone) to be out of work unnecessarily. And certainly not good to start off in adulthood without any expectation to work.

While care numbers are increasing in England they aren’t in other parts of the UK, and the jury is out on whether that means more children are being cared for safely in their families or whether children are being left for too long in dangerous circumstances. Your assertion that getting young people into work is the source of societal ills isn’t supported in research.

There’s a line to be walked, obviously, but young people being left to languish on benefits isn’t the answer

With kids as well?

In theory yes, but it's not always that easy especially when you add in other factors like trauma or those other complexities mentioned.

"If the safety net wasn’t there, many of our chronically under confident, lacking resilience young people would no doubt find a way to sustain employment." You are correct... we would ALSO have many more children going into care (we currently have the highest rates ever seen and there is nowhere for them to go) higher rates of poverty, higher rates of crime, exploitation and anti community behaviour, higher pressure on the already struggling NHS for mental health and addiction issues, more reliance on food banks who are now serving more employed people than ever before and are under pressure, more homelessness including street homelessness in the midst of a housing crisis. And all of these are factors which ironically put people out of work. It would also stop people from having children and we are already in an ageing population - we needLooking after the vulnerable in our society serves us as a society. It helps maintain social order and creates an overall safer and more resilient community.

"Saying they’re now trapped in minimum wage jobs is incredibly defeatist"

The flexible study modes you mention often have costs attached. If you are starting out and have no family support and your salary is eaten with housing and other essential bills then it becomes extremely difficult to access flexible study because you can't save to afford it. Where I used to work we were the only free mode of study/ pathway to employment for young people in the area. When our funding was cut their next closest was 2 hours away with no consistent transport links. For some people it will be much harder than others - you're suggesting the playing field is level but it isn't. So we need a benefits system that supports the most disadvantaged and that usually means making sure that we aren't overly restrictive in how financing is allocated.

usually there are issues that fly under the radar like lack of resilience, mental health challenges that aren't maybe bad enough for the likes of pip etc but that would make it hard for people to find and sustain the challenges that come with employment, often lack of confidence is a major factor I saw in my work as an employability support worker, plus unstable lives - if your housing or family situation etc is regularly in crisis its harder to focus on work,

Yes the reasons for chronic unemployment are often complex, however, some of what you’re listing are things we all need to find a way through. Not feeling resilient, low level mental health issues, lack of confidence, having been bullied are all life circumstances that may need support but as a society we can’t sustain paying indefinitely because people find it hard to work. If the safety net wasn’t there, many of our chronically under confident, lacking resilience young people would no doubt find a way to sustain employment.

It’s not remotely healthy for someone to move from school to benefits with the unspoken assumption that if work is too hard they can stay on benefits. Its hard starting out, but you do need to start and for most people that’s going to mean a low level job, learning new skills, meeting new people and learning how to meet targets etc. it does get easier but hiding under your duvet won’t help you develop resilience or gain confidence.

They ended up having to work so many hours to cover rent they dropped out of education and will now be trapped in minimum wage, not earning enough to save and not achieving the qualifications to further themselves

I really hope that isn’t the message we’re giving young people. There are lots of routes to qualifications and better jobs that don’t involve university full time or need someone to stop working. It’s not at all unusual for young people starting out to need to work and train/study at the same time. It may not be the easiest road but it’s certainly possible.

Full time minimum wage is around £1500 a month so between 3 people £1000 month rent should be manageable without massive amounts of overtime, and it’s possible to access flexible study to gain a needed qualification while working full time. I have two professional qualifications both gained while working full time.

Saying they’re now trapped in minimum wage jobs is incredibly defeatist.

Lol you would of hated me. Had a child at 16 and didn't get an actual job till she started school. I didn't know much about stuff like this so cluelessly walked around for four years having no idea so many people resented me 😂

I've never been unemployed since so don't rip me too hard 😂

I live off benefits due to disabilities. It was never my "full time mission" to live off them. I would rather be well!

Pretty offensive and also wrong of you to say that people like me are choosing this life.

I work full time (while in receipt of help with childcare costs) and I can tell you I could quite happily fill my time elsewhere if I won the lottery. I think that is pretty universal. But needs must.

The thing to remember is there are reasons why the chronically unemployed are unemployed and usually there are issues that fly under the radar like lack of resilience, mental health challenges that aren't maybe bad enough for the likes of pip etc but that would make it hard for people to find and sustain the challenges that come with employment, often lack of confidence is a major factor I saw in my work as an employability support worker, plus unstable lives - if your housing or family situation etc is regularly in crisis its harder to focus on work, lack of affordable childcare depending on where you live, lack of reliable transport costs depending on where you live, having a background of being in care, having certain convictions, managing addiction or other trauma, having been bullied, having to take on caring roles that make it difficult to sustain regular work, being unwell but struggling to get a clear diagnosis. There are so many reasons why people who on the surface look like they could work, don't feel empowered enough to do so.

"When I couldn’t afford a flat I got roommates. And a second job."

When I started out I flatshared and worked and for a 3 bed terrace we paid £150pcm each. I recently helped house 3 young people in the same street in the same type of house and the rent was £1000pcm. The young people were not eligible for benefits and were on minimum wage so that was a significant chunk of wages. They ended up having to work so many hours to cover rent they dropped out of education and will now be trapped in minimum wage, not earning enough to save and not achieving the qualifications to further themselves. If they had had help with housing costs they'd have sustained education and ended up being higher contributers with better paid jobs. Also- those houses have not improved since I lived there. Many were full of damp etc they are not worth that level of inflation but landlords know they have the monopoly.

Instead of blaming people on benefits. Blame the rich elite. They are the ones that keep you down.

When I couldn’t afford a flat I got roommates. And a second job.