Private school fomo

@ClaudiusTheGod I did get lucky with my parents. Shock horror but you haven't given me something for self reflection there. Absolutely I did. Just like my kids have with me.

The thing is though, I have been maxing out my ISA's for a number of years and considering my age it's not a small amount. None of that equally small amount of income is taxable. Not one penny. Ever. Now or in retirement. In the tax mans eyes I don't even have an income. I could then theoretically claim things like child benefit. Good grief. But it's legal. I could do it if I chose to and the thresholds fitted.

If you said no money could be outside the tax system all of that would suddenly come into play. So even if you said there was a 10% tax rate on say 100k (to keep the maths simple), well that's suddenly £10k of tax isn't it. Versus none. Nada.

It really isn't that simple. It depends absolutely on the personality of the child and the style of school.

My DS went to a state primary? Years r-4 were great.5&6 were not.

He's bright but quiet and a bit shy. He was given a place at a dire & huge local state school where he would have been bullied, kept quiet and kept his head down and come out with a clutch of average gcses

He managed to get a scholarship at a local Independent, which worked for him because it is small, not the least flash, has lots of DC's with service parents and they are all very down-to-earth. He has flourished and has 10 good GCSEs, half way to maths, DT & physics A'levels..

If it has been a big flashy independent he wouldn't have done so well.

Flat tax is not progressive taxation though, is it. The rich, whose wealth relies on a large number of poorly-paid people to do the work which supports daily life, would pay a tiny percentage of their wealth in flat taxes compared to the kind of people whose labour kept the country going five years ago in lockdown. We saw whose work was necessary then.

If you can live off investment income, which is what you’re implying, then you are extremely wealthy. This kind of life is beyond most people’s reach. Face it, you got lucky with your parents.

@ClaudiusTheGod On the subject of tax, the reality is that there should be a low flat tax for everyone with no allowances for tax free savings or allowances. Anyone who uses an ISA or pension tax rebates avoids paying tax. It might not surprise you to know that having used ISA's for years I can utlise the income from that which the tax man won't be able to tax at all. If you taxed everyone at a lower rate (say 20%) then you would actually increase tax take as that facility wouldn't be available.

Again, a total misrepresentation of your average private. My kids friends are totally "normal" for the most part. The ones you described are the outliers. They are perfectly able to understand that a lot of the "normal" things they have are not available to all. Catchment areas mean it's not particularly likely that state schools have as wide a demographic as everyone likes to think. I used to teach in one of the wealthiest towns in the UK. The state schools were not remote diverse.

Agreed, @Jinglejanglejangle has been given handouts from rich parents and is incredibly money-minded. Probably paying 5% tax on dividend income instead of PAYE like the rest of us. You can afford to play with the investment market when you’ve got your housing and bills covered.

You have no experience yet of the state school system. Give it a few years and then come back. Honestly I think you’d be mad to not even seriously consider especially as you can so easily afford it.
is there a better investment than good education of your child?

I did both for my DD - state primary for a couple of years then private as I could see she was falling behind. Equally I know several very bright well educated young people who’ve been through state. No less capable

a big consideration right now however is resourcing. State schools have always been under resourced but they are being even more squeezed. Eg a local state to us doesn’t now offer computer sciences as they’ve just got rid of their last CS teacher due to budget cuts

sports offerings tend to be very limited at state - fewer classes, less often, fewer facilities. Anything non core - drama, art - often the same experience

how well your child does or doesn’t navigate socially diverse situations in the future will be down to you and how you navigate them. Not wether or not they have a couple of school friends from the local sink estate

holidays are longer in private - the more you pay, the less they go to school. But days tend to be longer

@Pickledpoppetpickle maybe they don’t think that way at your school. I sat quietly in reception with my son when dropping him off at an event at a very expensive private school. We had arrived early due to the distance travelled, and could overhear the stream of judgemental comments made by the staff about the arriving pupils, their clothes, the cars driven by their, teachers, and all manner of other things. I find it hard to believe that those attitudes didn’t permeate the atmosphere and education of their extraordinarily wealthy pupils.

Expectation levels of how you build on that are high.

We were given that so we would forge a career and make a success of it. DB is now chief executive of a public company. I run my own business and am well respected in my industry. So it isn’t just about money - you can earn lots of money as a sex worker.

My DS is going to do something extremely specific that isn’t as high paying but will add real value and make a real difference (not public sector). That’s fine too. But if any of my kids arsed about spending the money given on crap and wasting opportunities that would be unacceptable.

How hard is it to be self sufficient when you don't have to worry about affording either rent or a mortgage though?

@ClaudiusTheGod rubbish. I was given a private education and a flat in London. My parents made sure I knew that if I wasn’t self sufficient as an adult everything else would go to charity. Anyway, it’s not going to charity so something must have gone right. And I am helping mine on the same principle.

@Europeanmum I send mine privately and think it’s the best decision I can make for them. Do it. You can do so why wouldn't you.

Tuition

The top state schools send a third of kids to Oxbridge - there was actually one near me like that, and spaces were more coveted than at the local private school.

All that is to say that it's not as simple as state = bad, private = better. You really need to do research into local schools. If you're in the catchment for an excellent state school you should go to that.

My mum went to an expensive private school, hated it, and dropped out before sixth form despite being v clever. Me and my siblings went to a state school we loved and got into Oxbridge. It's really more about the learning environment and ethos of the school in my opinion

I went to state as did my husband -we have multiple homes now so see both sides and could afford private but our children went to state schools. Admittedly in a posh area…

The Rich people with contacts will do what they do no matter if you go to private or state schools - they are on a different planet

You can’t complete so we saved the money and are giving it to them as a house deposits (my eldest is currently at one of the top universities world wide)

but it will mean half a million not invested

But presumably a bigger amount will be invested? 😃

And also we would hate if they became an adult raised in a bubble of privilege with limited empathy for different backgrounds

as an independent school teacher, this is one of the biggest load of bollox that is spouted about children who attend private. And school is not a child’s only way of learning. You shouldn’t be expecting school to teach morals, common decency, and an understanding of what it means to be privileged. You can teach how to listen, empathise, thinking about what it’s like to walk a mile in other people’s shoes. You can give to charity, take part in charitable events and get children to research and understand what their donations might be used for. You can encourage kindness and developing friendships with children at activities who are struggling to get along with others. I know of more than one parent who demands their children do voluntary work as a punishment - they are given a number of hours to work depending on what they did and ‘pay back’ by working broadly in support of their local community. They can join Guides/Scouts/Cadets or do Duke of Edinburgh which has a volunteering element.

Your children will take their cues from you. If you want empathy for different backgrounds, you need to demonstrate it. And I can assure you that an independent school will not be telling your children they are somehow better than everyone else. But they will work to develop confidence, they will creatively deliver their curriculum and provide multiple opportunities for excellence in music, drama, sport, maths, science, languages etc. etc. Alongside smaller class sizes, it is those opportunities you are paying for.

Have a look at all local schools.

you can always start state Primary with a view to 7 or 11 entry if you feel that would be a good move at the
time.

because you can afford to dip in Whenever it suits you have the advantage of starting off state and moving anytime you feel it’s right or if it’s right.

I think it completely depends what you value. I personally chose to go down the private route from primary and I feel it’s been worth every penny.

My DCs have had access to small class sizes with extra support if needed, great facilities both academic, musical and sporting. Fantastic wrap around and holiday clubs, wide and extensive range of extra curricular activity on site. They have been nurtured with their individual interests encouraged and any difficulties supported. DCs have grown up with far more confidence and with a love for learning I admire. Most of all they are happy and that’s priceless.

It may be they would have got some of this at the local state but definitely not all of it.

I would go for the local State, it sounds fine. If you think it's lacking in some areas eg maths, music, you can do extra maths workbooks with your son, or get him a tutor when he's a but older. For music he can learn an instrument outside of school. You don't know what your son will be like academically, and whether he will need the extra attention in a private primary.

My DD had state primary, private secondary. I know families who chose private primary, but I don't think it was really worth it, no difference to eventual uni.

Also bear in mind that your DS may want to be an archeologist, reseaech scientists or a drummer, and not make 6 or 7 figuers. You need to make sure he doesn't feel like he has to be successful and a return on investment.

Private school can’t get something out of a child that isn’t in them already. The sort of people with the intellect, charisma and drive to be capable of attracting seven figure salaries will do well anywhere.