Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor - you have blood on your hands

Honestly the poor woman was absolutley trafficked by Epstein and maxwell and pimped out to their friends among whom was Andrew.
what’s less clear is if they a) knew she was being trafficked orb) thought she was a groupie who was dying to sleep with a celebrity or royal.
Trying to lay the sole blame at just one or the these friends door simply because you dislike the royals is quite insulting to her and her family to be honest.
she clearly had struggled massively in recent years poor woman.

IIRC the sex trafficking offence was not law at that time, so PA didn't break the law & the events cannot be back dated to be criminal. This applies across the board not as a get out for the few.

That he's sleazy, arrogant & many other unpleasant attributes is a given. His reputation is shot & he is rapidly irrelevant.

The case brought was a civil case & as often happens was settled out of court.

In fact, it wasn't even 'probably'. It was 'must have ' slept with hundreds of men.

I have never said this before on mumsnet, but you should be deeply ashamed of that comment.
I cannot believe what I have just read. A victim of suicide only yesterday - after sexual abuse and trafficking torn apart like this.
I am shocked

And he was at Pizza Express 🤫

He has a condition which means he cannot sweat. So he never met her.
🤐

FFS. You are having a go at everyone on this thread about not being factual and yet you are saying this woman who was trafficked and a victim of sexual abuse probably slept with hundreds of men. Where are your facts for this,?

You are appalling

I don't need you to instruct me on what I should read. I can decide that all by myself.

Maybe read some of those testimonies then

I don't think the RF would never have allowed Andrew to enter a witness box.

Not a hope. The Queen had a sudden flash of memory when Paul Burrell was about to take the stand in his theft trial to stop any embarrassing skeletons coming out. There was no way they'd let Andrew anywhere near, especially after proving himself as a total liability during the NN interview.

I have never seen any evidence that what she alleged was true

If Virginia was telling the truth I expect that's what a court case might have shown, @CantStopMoving, but she chose to take a payout instead, I don't think the RF would never have allowed Andrew to enter a witness box, and now we'll never know either way

I'm not for one minute suggesting there is anything dodgy about VG's death. But I bet there are quite a few rich, powerful and famous men sleeping easier tonight knowing that it's not going to be them next in the spotlight.

they are very common, including employment law cases which are regularly settled with no liability accepted

So employment settlements where the complainant never actually worked for the company are common? Because Andrew maintained he never met VG.

But apologists don't care that he lied, they care about the "facts". Do you ever ask yourself if you have all the facts? The Andrew apologists who are far more intelligent than us and understand that Andrew and the head of state settled the case because they didn't want other information coming out. What was that other information? Presumably it would be very damaging, hence the settlement.

As for the people that say no crime was committed because VG was over the age of consent, do you understand consent? Do you know that a man is not allowed to have sex with any woman he likes as long as she's over the age of consent. She must consent to the sex, trafficked women cannot do that.

And while Andrew is not the only person to have harmed VG, he absolutely had the power to save her and other girls harmed by Epstein but he didn't do a thing. Imagine if he had used his power to help those girls.

Forgot that William hadn't been born then.

A payout would always have been on the cards. She said she was going to take it all the way but then didn't.

I don't know for sure any more than anyone else whether the photo is fake; but I note that the main people suggesting this are the others in the picture, ie PA and Maxwell. And they kind of would. Others are convinced it is genuine.

What still makes me angry is that at the time Buckingham Palace denied the allegations against PA. In their words: 'It is emphatically denied that the Duke of York had any form of sexual contact or relationship with Virginia Roberts. Any claim to the contrary is false and without foundation.'

So the representative of our Head of State effectively called VG - a trafficking victim - a liar in a public statement, presumably on the basis merely that PA said the accusations were untrue (because if they had unequivocal evidence of his innocence other than 'Pizza Express' and 'I don't sweat' they would have produced it). And this in the context of a lamentable conviction rate for sexual offences in this country where most offenders go unpunished.

I think that it is this more than anything, which has caused me to lose all respect for and faith in the Monarchy.

3rd I think after Chas and Willy.

Did she ever say she was after a big payout? I know she accepted one but she was also prepared to go to court.

I think the photo faking would have a lot more credit to it now with the rise of AI and whatnot but in 2001 when even the internet was so basic? Not that it matters as we all know Andy was at Pizza Express anyway!

If so then it could have been triggered by any number of things. That doesn't mean what Prince Andrew did was not disgusting of course. Vile, vile man. I'm glad it's not him on the throne.

He was a much bigger player back then! He was 2nd in line to the throne if I remember correctly!

VG was after a big payout so it's not beyond the bounds of reason for the photo not to be genuine? I'm not saying it's not. I am saying I don't know.

I was setting the context. Of course it's not the case. Do you think I was happy at 16/17 (and from a sheltered background) for sleazy older married men with children decided to help themselves to mine?

It was every kind of wrong but it happened more than some people might imagine. I was subjected to it in my Saturday job in a shop. I was trying to make the point that the police would be unlikely to act on an allegation of this nature.

He said he couldn’t remember meeting her. Not the same as never meeting her. He meets tonnes of people and we have zero context as to how the photo was taken. I have no idea. I don’t know how anyone else does.

But who'd have something to gain by going to presumably a lot of trouble back then to Photoshop PA into a picture. He wasn't exactly a major VIP even in his own family.
Not being goady btw, just trying to make it make sense.

I don't have one. All I know is that doubt has been cast on its validity. I simply don't know whether it is real or not. Do you?

Someone with something to gain might very well fake a photo, but I have no idea. I don't think it's a 'gotcha' either way.

Believe me I do NOT view it as dismissive. It read to me that you didn't view it as someone having their breasts groped by PA as a big deal because it happened all the time.

Apologies if that's not the case.

I don't know who is telling the truth or who is telling lies but I don't think either party is a particularly credible witness.

I don't know how you term my abuse as "dismissive" and you are supportive of someone else's allegations. Is the abuse I suffered less? Thanks for that.

@mainecooncatonahottinroof We don't know whether the photo was faked.
What's your problem with that? Or do you just want to not let facts get in the way of a good story?

My problem (and I use that word loosely) is that the last photo I can remember being faked was the Loch Ness monster one. It's certainly not a common occurrence.

What's your issue with believing it's real? As you've already established I'm not very bright so please don't use any long words!

The last point refers to Victoria Hervey, I refuse to call her a lady who bangs on about doctored photos and is gleeful about the news of VGs death.

To be strictly accurate, he didn't traffick her, nor has it ever been suggested that he did. I'm not sure why he, only he, and not the many others who had even more responsibility for the events of her youth, is the subject of this thread.