Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor - you have blood on your hands

Absolutely this, and now the poor woman has killed herself.

She would never have done it, had she not been abused. It's one of the worst things that can happen to a child and, no, I do not care that the age of consent is 16. She was still a child and Andrew is a damn pedophile.

I don’t see anyone saying it is ALL Andrew’s fault but due to his stupidly and that of the royals Andrew is the only one Im aware of who has given an interview about Epstein , denied all wrongdoing , and had his mother pay off his accuser .

No crime has been proved.

I think that is unfair.
There are several members of the RF who are in fact commoners.
Catherine, Sophie, Camilla and 'Fergie'. Even the late Prince Philip was a relative commoner, albeit with distant royal relatives in Greece but he had a terrible life as a child passed from one family to another and arrived here almost as a refugee.

They bring influence. I think William is especially sensitive and will change the monarchy for the better in some ways.

They all do the best they can given their position, for various charities.

You can't ignore the Prince's Trust, the D of E award, and various other charities that they have established or are patrons of.

No I'm not. I am saying that the premise of this thread - that the suicide of this woman is all his fault - is factually untrue.

A friend of mine has dealt with the consequences of SA from a young age. Every couple of years she absolutely crumbles emotionally. Her foster-mom takes care of her during those episodes. But she cannot function from day to day. She gets put on medication and get additional therapy. We would usually see her a few months later, slowly coming out of it. I was shocked the first time I saw her again. She seemed like a different person.

It was done to her over 30 years ago. Her life is incredibly hard because of what was done to her as a child. Many victims never fully recover, or have severe mental set-backs from time to time, like my friend.

There should be no time limit on punishing the perpetrators.

Of course it is linked. One thing causes another and then another and another. You can't set aside incidents like this neatly.

I guess ultimately no one will know the truth about any of it. But it never ever ceases to amaze me how people will fall over themselves in defending a group of people, a family of individuals who exist in a vacuum of unimaginable and unearned privilege and wealth, who, we are told, are this country’s symbol of this and that. That they represent our national values, history, identity etc. But in reality they have zero in common with the average citizen, and they cannot relate to us, their royal “subjects”, and because all of this they are untouchable in every single way. And yet we still throw money at them, to keep them where they are, and we pay them to be better than us, even though they are not.

Very sad

Personally I think it’s hideous when people loudly declare their support for sex offenders they cling on to, like she did, further enabling them, but different strokes for different folks I guess

@SnoozingFox

you are defending Andrew

Andrew should answer for his crimes and so should all the men involved.

i didnt ask that

I’m sure she was deeply disturbed and have all sorts of MH issues: it tends to be what’s happens when you spent your youth being raped.

I think people see victims like movie victims - they take deep breaths and find strength and peace by their mid-20’s. Some do. Most don’t.

i think it is unfair to call Sarah Hideous and that ginger one

She also said in an interview that she was "passed around like a platter of fruit" by Epstein to his associates.

I'm not defending Andrew but this narrative that it's all his fault because he was the one who abused her is just factually untrue. He was one of many.

Exactly.

Andrew is not the sharpest tool in the tool box by a long way.
He was as 'vulnerable' as VG in some ways. He was used for many things, for his status and associations, just the same as he was by the 'alleged China spy'.
He's just too dim to see it.

He's surrounded by sycophants who won't tell him anything straight. He's lived in a bubble and all those years ago, he was a type of 'foolish playboy' indulged at home and by everyone else.

That will never happen. I think there are some very powerful people involved, more powerful than Prince Andrew.

You don't think that we should speak out to stop the sexual abuse of children and the sex trafficking of vulnerable people?

I’m holding my breath for nothing I don’t think a single rapist will be jailed over this Epstein business. Maxwell was the scapegoat, though she’s where she should be.

I wonder how many more Virginias have lost their lives to disgusting predators. My hearts and thoughts are with them all today.

'Lady' Victoria did WHAT??!!

You know some in this uber-rich privileged class who think they're better than the rest of humanity need to think very seriously about how things like this come across to the 'poor unfortunates'.

Dumb thing to do publicly. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

This sums it up perfectly. This was a very troubled woman who was sexually abused from the age of 7. She was street homeless as a teenager and again - underage - abused by a sex trafficker. All before she was anywhere near Epstein and Maxwell.

Andrew is a fool and there is no proof either way that what she said happened, happened. But to put 100% of the blame at his door is just madness and very unfair.

@JandamiHash

Dont hold your breath waiting for the Windsors to do anything re Andrew.
His right in the ( corrupt) bosom of that family and going nowhere
As far as the Windsors are concerned Andrew’s only crime was being caught

The only thing the Windsors are busy doing is name changing on mumsnet to spout royalist nonsense

Kidding!

This is what you have to say about a woman who has just died in the most tragic circumstances? I don't know all the truth about this any more than anyone else but I do know what trauma can do to people, and being 'deeply disturbed' does not make her a liar.

This in buckets. I honestly don’t think PA is the malevolent sexual abuser or predator that he is being accused of. I don’t like the man particularly, he’s stupid, spoilt and entitled in the worst ways possible. I firmly believe that while he was not a victim of Jeffery Epstein, he was definitely a useful idiot, a vector to other people. That there were all these young women around behaving initially like normal staff would have been completely normal to PA, I completely believe that Epstein groomed him too; he wouldn’t have asked any of the girls to do anything sexual on the first few visits, only when he was comfortable.

We also have to remember that PA wasn’t the only man involved with Virginia’s abuse; Epstein used her, and many other girls, to get compromising material on rich and powerful men.