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Paddleboarding tragedy (why did she do this?)

192 replies

PassingStranger · 25/04/2025 16:55

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/former-cops-grovelling-voice-note-35105323

Did anyone else see this on the news?
4 people died
Horrific, imagine their panic.

What was behind this desire to take them out, when she shouldn't have.
I'll presume it was money sadly.😢

I'm glad she got prison.

Fatal error by 'cowardly' ex-cop that killed four in paddleboarding tragedy

Former police officer Nerys Bethan Lloyd has been jailed for 10 years and six months over the deaths of four paddleboarders in Wales after the "avoidable tragedy"

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/former-cops-grovelling-voice-note-35105323

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
330ml · 26/04/2025 19:32

Well, not necessarily. Paddleboard surfing is a thing.

For beginners? On a swollen river?

330ml · 26/04/2025 19:31

Paddle boards are for flat calm water.

Agree with this. I have done a fair bit of paddle boarding on rivers and the sea.

I have never used a tether.

We were in nearby in Wales when the tragedy happened and I remember my DH, who had seen the river, being incredulous that anybody had even considered going out on a SUP.

latetothefisting · 26/04/2025 19:16

jasflowers · 26/04/2025 17:23

Going down this structure isn't safe, fall off either side and you re in a closed stopper with no escape, the fish ladder wall effectively locks you the stopper.

Even if you don't, you risk being pulled back into the face of the Weir, tow back can be many meters.

She was a fucking idiot and to some extent so were the people with her, even with no training, Weirs in flood are scary places, no one in their right mind goes near them.

Paddle boards are for flat calm water.

Paddle boards are for flat calm water.

Well, not necessarily. Paddleboard surfing is a thing, but usually with slightly different safety features/sometimes a smaller board etc.

Even just normal paddleboarding in the sea is rarely completely flat or calm.
It's about properly preparing for conditions/location and to some extent ability of participants, although as I said above that last factor didn't really make a difference in this case.

The majority of their journey on that day would have been fine if they'd just taken their boards out just before the weir and then got back on after (as a sign by their launch point specifically advised).

NormasArse · 26/04/2025 19:13

I’m a paddleboard instructor. Nobody is allowed on the lake without a buoyancy aid, and we cancel sessions if the wind is too strong. You can’t fuck about with safety.

cakeorwine · 26/04/2025 19:05

I wonder how many other organisations are looking at what they do and are thinking "There but for the Grace of God go I?"

Risk assessments
Briefings
Next of kin
Knowing your limits - and what you are trained to do

Insurance policies

Clafoutie · 26/04/2025 19:05

verityveritas · 26/04/2025 01:17

low head weirs (which is what this one is) tend to be more dangerous than larger weirs. At the bottom of weirs and dams you get something called a hydraulic jump, when you get fast flowing shallow water (going over a weir) meeting deep slower moving water the hydraulic jump is closer to the weir causing two very strong opposing currents, making it almost impossible to get out of, even if you are an incredibly strong swimmer. In kayaking the hydraulic jump is known as the ‘keep’ as it quite literally keeps whatever has gone over the weir.
The bubbling water known as boiling water, has a very high oxygen content, which reduces buoyancy.
Most low head weirs are incredibly dangerous and most are totally redundant these days, the best answer is to get rid of the bloody things, then you don’t need a fish pass (most weirs aren’t good for ecology anyway) and you decrease drowning risk.

I can not fathom how someone who had RNLI training did not understand the very basic physics of velocity and depth or at a very simple level currents. Nor can I understand how she allowed a patron to go on the river without a buoyancy aid (although given the hydraulic jump on that day, it probably wouldn’t have helped very much). Or the lack of wet / dry suits. Even most cold water swimmers have some form of neoprene swimming togs (if not a shortie or full wetsuit). Again, though, wet/ dry suits probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference once a person is stuck in a keep, they get tired very, very quickly, and constantly get battered / pulled under by the sheer volume of fierce water.

she played fast and loose with peoples lives, her arrogance, attempt to pass the buck, and lack of remorse was staggering. She deserves the 10 years.

feel incredibly sorry for the families who have lost their loved ones,

I agree. There is so much that is unfathomable here, but the most, for me, is her reported lack of remorse. I just can’t get my head around that. Also that she continued to post pictures on social media of herself out and about, seemingly enjoying herself. It just blows my mind that anyone could do that, knowing it could be seen by the victim’s families.

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 26/04/2025 17:43

Liverpool52 · 25/04/2025 17:25

I volunteer in an activity where safety is key and the amount of other volunteers who are quite happy to take risks like this is quite shocking, even when guidelines quite clearly say stop in X circumstances. I've had people be utterly vitriolic to me when I've enforced those safety guidelines because they see it as spoiling fun.

I went on a ghyll scrambling trip in Wales, and refused the final jump because there were floral tributes at the jump site.

The water wasn't at its highest either.

Turns out I have passed the "if your friends all jumped off a cliff, would you" test - but I don't know why the instructors allowed it.

jasflowers · 26/04/2025 17:23

nomas · 26/04/2025 16:54

She didn’t risk her own life, she went down a fishtail that she didn’t bother training the others about being the safe passage.

Going down this structure isn't safe, fall off either side and you re in a closed stopper with no escape, the fish ladder wall effectively locks you the stopper.

Even if you don't, you risk being pulled back into the face of the Weir, tow back can be many meters.

She was a fucking idiot and to some extent so were the people with her, even with no training, Weirs in flood are scary places, no one in their right mind goes near them.

Paddle boards are for flat calm water.

PassingStranger · 26/04/2025 17:12

nomas · 26/04/2025 16:54

She didn’t risk her own life, she went down a fishtail that she didn’t bother training the others about being the safe passage.

Didn't even tell.them.it was there.

OP posts:
nomas · 26/04/2025 16:54

Peacepleaselouise · 25/04/2025 17:02

Clearly it was very poor judgement. She should have known better but she obviously didn’t as she risked her own life too.

I personally felt 10years was a little harsh but my DH totally disagreed. So perhaps I am being overly sympathetic to her. It’s obviously appalling that 4 people died when they should never have been there in the conditions.

She didn’t risk her own life, she went down a fishtail that she didn’t bother training the others about being the safe passage.

PassingStranger · 26/04/2025 16:49

Fossilhunters · 26/04/2025 16:40

Who do think could have stopped her? She was keen to do it, any of the others could have dropped out at any time beforehand but they were on a paid for trip many miles away from home. They trusted her that it was fine to go ahead I expect and even if they thought the weather was less than ideal there is a certain peer pressure on group trips like that that you all do the activity or no one does.

So it has the potential to happen again then?
Have rules been tightened up then.
Can anyone take people out paddleboarding?
What I'm trying to say is have any changes come about now?

OP posts:
TheHerboriste · 26/04/2025 16:46

Peacepleaselouise · 25/04/2025 17:02

Clearly it was very poor judgement. She should have known better but she obviously didn’t as she risked her own life too.

I personally felt 10years was a little harsh but my DH totally disagreed. So perhaps I am being overly sympathetic to her. It’s obviously appalling that 4 people died when they should never have been there in the conditions.

She should be locked up for life.

Fossilhunters · 26/04/2025 16:40

PassingStranger · 26/04/2025 16:11

What i meant was, how was she able to take the party out then?
Why was their nothing to stop her?
Does it have the potential to happen again?

Who do think could have stopped her? She was keen to do it, any of the others could have dropped out at any time beforehand but they were on a paid for trip many miles away from home. They trusted her that it was fine to go ahead I expect and even if they thought the weather was less than ideal there is a certain peer pressure on group trips like that that you all do the activity or no one does.

Fossilhunters · 26/04/2025 16:38

I’m reasonably local and Paul’s wife’s victim impact statement has been shared on FB. It’s an utterly heartbreaking read. Wrecked lives for so many people, all for a weekend away. Looks like they’d done this a few times over the summer - nice weather, BBQ’s, dancing, music all looks lovely on the socials but that day the weather was awful - the trip should have been cancelled and the walk done instead.

PassingStranger · 26/04/2025 16:11

verityveritas · 26/04/2025 15:13

plenty (in theory). A proper risk assessment of the weir should have been enough to stop the event going ahead in the first place. Anyone with a basic knowledge of weirs and dams knows they are incredibly dangerous if the water below the weir or dam is high. It’s basic physics, and instructors should have a good understanding of the forces at play, if they don’t they shouldn’t be on the water, and certainly shouldn’t be leading a group down it.
Weirs in full spate are an absolute ‘no, no’ and even highly experienced and skilled kayakers tend to portage (get out and carry the kayak). Sadly a few kayakers don’t get out and do die. We have at least one death a year near the river I live close to. Anyone who goes on or paddles / swims in a body of water should be aware of the dangers of ; cold water shock; currents which aren’t always visible at the surface; water depth; tides and rip tides (you can’t always see a rip tide, so if in doubt don’t go in the water); awareness that depth can change very rapidly; if you don’t feel comfortable don’t go in. Have a good understanding of what to do if caught in a current. Again not much you can do if you’re caught in the keep, so just avoid them. Weirs can be made safer, or as I mentioned before ideally removed.

What i meant was, how was she able to take the party out then?
Why was their nothing to stop her?
Does it have the potential to happen again?

OP posts:
verityveritas · 26/04/2025 15:13

PassingStranger · 26/04/2025 11:49

What's in place to stop this happening again?

Do you now have to ask someone if they are qualified to take you out, do you have to check they are insured ask them to not to take you down a weir.
What is there to stop this happening again?

plenty (in theory). A proper risk assessment of the weir should have been enough to stop the event going ahead in the first place. Anyone with a basic knowledge of weirs and dams knows they are incredibly dangerous if the water below the weir or dam is high. It’s basic physics, and instructors should have a good understanding of the forces at play, if they don’t they shouldn’t be on the water, and certainly shouldn’t be leading a group down it.
Weirs in full spate are an absolute ‘no, no’ and even highly experienced and skilled kayakers tend to portage (get out and carry the kayak). Sadly a few kayakers don’t get out and do die. We have at least one death a year near the river I live close to. Anyone who goes on or paddles / swims in a body of water should be aware of the dangers of ; cold water shock; currents which aren’t always visible at the surface; water depth; tides and rip tides (you can’t always see a rip tide, so if in doubt don’t go in the water); awareness that depth can change very rapidly; if you don’t feel comfortable don’t go in. Have a good understanding of what to do if caught in a current. Again not much you can do if you’re caught in the keep, so just avoid them. Weirs can be made safer, or as I mentioned before ideally removed.

verityveritas · 26/04/2025 14:49

LongHoliday01 · 26/04/2025 10:07

So even those wearing a life jacket died?

3 of the 4 who drowned were wearing a buoyancy aid. But the nature of the hydraulic jump, meant a life jacket wouldn’t have made much of a difference. That said it’s always worth wearing one when doing anything recreational on water.
similarly some of those who died were wearing wetsuits, but again given the very dangerous conditions a wetsuit wouldn’t have made much of a difference, it might buy you a few more minuets of time, but cold water shock is still an issue. So cold water and very strong circulating currents caused by the design of the weir, meant survival was more down to luck than anything the paddle boarders could have done once in the keep, regardless of their skill.

MonteStory · 26/04/2025 14:13

faerietales · 25/04/2025 18:36

But to get a conviction for murder, you have to be able to prove intent.

Is there not an argument about ‘you could reasonably have foreseen death’?

Lile you couldn’t push someone onto a motorway or put cyanide in their food and then say ‘I didn’t MEAN to kill him’

Pistorious was ultimately convicted because you can reasonably foresee that if you shoot at someone they might die, even though it was accepted he did not plan to kill. (Yes I know that’s another country and therefore a different system)

Lansonmaid · 26/04/2025 13:52

PassingStranger · 26/04/2025 11:49

What's in place to stop this happening again?

Do you now have to ask someone if they are qualified to take you out, do you have to check they are insured ask them to not to take you down a weir.
What is there to stop this happening again?

looking at the the report, it appears that training and qualifications for SUP hadn’t kept pace with the sport’s popularity. I sail and I know if I want instruction I can go to a Royal Yachting Association approved school where the instructors have been trained to recognised standards.
I went on a couple of trial SUP events and on both the fitting of equipment (buoyancy aids, dry suit tops, helmets etc plus the safety briefing took at least half an hour and may have been longer. One of the sessions was in an estuary and we wore quick release waist belts in case we fell off and got tangled in moorings by our leashes and dragged under.
The leader of this group gambled with safety, any activity should be planned according to the least experienced member of the group.

latetothefisting · 26/04/2025 12:01

LongHoliday01 · 26/04/2025 10:07

So even those wearing a life jacket died?

If you read the report @Jellyjellyonaplate linked to a few posts above, it confirmed that the 2 people not wearing life jackets (technically buoyancy aids but similar thing) were the 2 that survived, which surprised me, but is explained in that the buoyancy aids were probably what stopped them from getting pulled under the water and then spat out further downstream, where it was calmer and they could swim to the side/get back on their boards, which is what happened to the people who survived.

Essentially the buoyancy aids (and the fact they were still attached to the paddleboards) were what kept them getting pulled back in the eddies of the weir and unable to get out.

It's scary reading - the other leader and at least one of the deceased were very experienced paddleboarders and physically strong/fit as well, so if they couldn't escape it's very unlikely there was anything anybody could have done once they'd gone over the weir - the report essentially said that, other than the first leader who went over the fish ramp, which was the only semi-safe way to do it, the others only survived via luck (including not wearing their buoyancy aids, which in other circumstances like flat water might have worked the other way round), than because they did anything "right". There was literally nothing the other poor people could have done differently once they'd gone over.

Smallmercies · 26/04/2025 11:58

PassingStranger · 26/04/2025 11:49

What's in place to stop this happening again?

Do you now have to ask someone if they are qualified to take you out, do you have to check they are insured ask them to not to take you down a weir.
What is there to stop this happening again?

There are laws in place, which is why this prosecution has been successful. What do you think might have prevented it in the first place? Can you think of anything? How do you physically stop someone behaving recklessly?

PassingStranger · 26/04/2025 11:49

What's in place to stop this happening again?

Do you now have to ask someone if they are qualified to take you out, do you have to check they are insured ask them to not to take you down a weir.
What is there to stop this happening again?

OP posts:
LongHoliday01 · 26/04/2025 10:07

So even those wearing a life jacket died?

sashh · 26/04/2025 07:45

If you want to watch the judge's remarks they are here

These were not just paying customers they were friends and a next door neighbour.

They had the wrong equipment several had no wet suit and one had no life jacket. They had a leash from their ankles to the paddleboard so once they were over the weir they were basically in a whirlpool attached to large floats.

There are children left without a parent.

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cakeorwine · 26/04/2025 05:20

The investigation is a very interesting report. I listen to Cautionary Tales and it reads like one of those. Going in summer and seeing the weir when it looked ok. People on the course having faith in instructors because you trust people in charge especially when they appear confident. The leader not listening to advice.

I am also very surprised at the clothing and the lack of PFDs people were wearing. They were going out for a long day on paddleboards.