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Can you explain the financial crisis in universities to me as if I’m a 6 year old?

36 replies

Fieldmousebonnet · 25/04/2025 15:54

We are currently living in Ireland but may return to the UK once teenage DC are finished school. They are considering going to uni in the UK and I am aware in a basic way that many universities have financial issues, are cutting staff and courses etc. I don’t feel I have a decent grasp of why this is or what it would mean in reality if they studied there. In Ireland I am not aware of similar issues but there is a much smaller number of universities to choose from and admission to many courses is highly competitive due to the numbers applying rather than the demands of courses themselves. My DC would have more options to choose from in the UK, which is a major reason for considering it. Can anyone explain the situation to me in a simple way?

OP posts:
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TokyoKyoto · 26/04/2025 14:30

rachelhere · 25/04/2025 17:12

Hmm. Am Facebook friends with someone I went to school with who is now a professor at a uni. He is here, there, everywhere, constantly on a plane, posts endless photos of conference halls in India, China etc. with him standing in front of the same boring PowerPoint....you just think, is that really the best use of the university's dime? In this day and age? Multiply by the number of people doing that, on top of their wages. Its a bit of a dreamworld, academia, isn't it? It just doesn't matter...until suddenly it does!

The way it works is he is paid a salary by the university, but he must attract grants in order to pay for research and staff. Likely he is managing several large grants. When I say 'managing', I mean there is an administrator and they collaborate on how the money is deployed, with many stipulations which were part of the grant application.

His university will be judging his success or failure based on how many of these grants he can get, how big they are, and their 'impact' - so he has to travel to collaborate with others so they can apply for grants as a team, he has to travel to the places where the impact may be most useful. Whatever detractors say, research which moves us forward is still an international activity. In Britain there's still a whiff of colonialism about it too.

The point is, it is not the university's dime that's paying for the travel. We as taxpayers do not generally pay for travel and accommodation. Grants pay for the rooms that are in use, even! They pay for equipment. We aren't even paying the salaries of a lot of research staff. It all comes from grants with various foundations (and yes some government research councils as well).

People have less than zero idea quite often of how academia is organised. Please don't believe the Daily Mail, Reform etc. University staff have been cut to the bone, actually, and where you might have got subsidised accommodation and a secretary and long holidays, that was about 70 years ago and it all gone, replaced by a far more corporate culture. Fair enough in some ways but it really is not a dreamworld by any means.

ItsMutinyontheBunty · 26/04/2025 14:10

Something else it’s important to check you may not have considered - a friend of mine at uni (this was around 2000), was born in England, the family moved to Ireland when she was in primary and moved back to England before she went to uni. She discovered she struggled to get any student finance. UK student loans company wouldn’t give her a loan because she hadn’t lived in the UK for a long time. She didn’t meet criteria as an international student because her current address was in the UK. I think she ended up getting a bank loan with a high interest rate. I’d definitely suggest checking this possible issue out before you move.

Phunkychicken · 26/04/2025 11:21

I work for a RG uni. I discovered that the Gov gives unis £250 per head for UK fee students on non science/med/engineering courses per year. And has curtailed the max fees the unis can charge these students for years.

Even a 6 year old could see that's not really enough, esp as fees have not rise for years whilst costs have rocketed hugely.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 26/04/2025 11:15

Didn’t the government also limit the number of possible students at one point, thereby limiting their contribution?

TooBored1 · 26/04/2025 10:48

GinForBreakfast · 25/04/2025 16:03

There's a long running thread on the Higher Education Boards. The website WonkHE is also a good browse, if a bit geeky. But essentially:

University fees and therefore funding for universities have not kept pace with costs and inflation. Income from fees is not enough to cover the cost of running all courses.

Universities carry other loss making activities such as research.

Universities countered this by recruiting international students at a higher fee. International student numbers are collapsing.

Brexit hasn't helped!

We are now in a period where universities are having to make efficiencies / contract / cut costs etc.

No one knows where it will end up. Public sentiment and public finances do not support more public funding for universities. Student debt is high and graduate salaries are stagnating (on average).

No one can really advise on what this means for your choices, and that of your children. Choosing where or whether to go to university is a complex decision based on very personal, specific factors.

Good luck.

This is a really good explanation. Just to add that as universities are responsible for around 50% of young adults, they are picking up the pieces of austerity and broken mental health, SEND and education systems.

Universities are spending £m on supporting students, when really this should be paid for elsewhere. (Universities will always have a duty of care, but shouldn't be the ones footing the bill for providing what is essentially healthcare.)

Fieldmousebonnet · 26/04/2025 10:17

Thanks so much to you all for taking the time to reply! I had not realised the extent to which universities were more government funded back in the day and that the current level of fees is not covering costs.

OP posts:
GinForBreakfast · 25/04/2025 22:27

“My neighbour’s friend’s mum saw a thing on her gym buddy’s book club facebook page that suggests that lecturers don’t work as hard as people going down a mine” is not a robust analysis of the issues facing higher education institutions.

noctilucentcloud · 25/04/2025 19:18

I think Higher Education has been underfunded for years even before tuition fees. As others have said, international student fees helped to somewhat offset this, but the numbers have declined. That's causing a lot of the problems now. Along with national insurance rises, cost of electricity etc. Anything that makes our day-to-day costs more, means the universities day-to-day costs are also more.

But something other people haven't mentioned is research grants. Most universities do a lot of research (lecturers don't just teach, that's a small part of their job). These research grants are really competitive, only about 10% of proposals are funded. If you are succesful your research grant is funded at 80% of what it costs you, but you're still expected to do 100% of the research. So universities are meant to magically find the remaining 20% of the costs. (And you can't over-exagerate your costs in your proposal to cover it!)

CarrotVan · 25/04/2025 18:48

changes to international students have made the UK less attractive and international students are how universities cover their costs, as has Brexit and our political discourse in recent years.

heavy over reliance on Chinese students across the sector which is now a weaker market as China has built many excellent universities, recruiting staff internationally

universities in unpopular places for international students are doing particularly badly

some universities have had colossally bad financial management

plus inflation, cost of living, tax changes, costly over-regulation and a weird relationship
with public funding that means they can’t charge real costs because the government can’t afford the student loan book

HOWEVER, there’s potential to pick up students who no longer want to go to America and also American students who want to get the hell out for 4 years. Which is good.

BusMumsHoliday · 25/04/2025 18:31

@rachelhere That almost certainly won't be on the universities dime; it might be costed into a research grant. I'm a lecturer and my personal research budget is £500 pa. That will just about (maybe) pay for a conference in Europe. It won't take me to the US, where I actually need to go because of my work. These are events I need to attend to publicise my own work and learn about the latest work in my field; I am supposed to do them as part of my job. I pay out of pocket to attend some. So I effectively pay to do my job because if I don't, I'm more at risk when the axe falls - and because I think the work is important, valuable and no one else is doing what I'm doing.

OP, another reason is the removal of the recruitment cap on numbers. When you were at uni, each intrusion could recruit a certain number of students per course and there were financial penalties for over recruiting. When this was removed, Russell Group unis expanded massively, and borrowed for huge capital projects to match and keep up recruitment. Now we're in a demographic dip, plus inflation, the banks behind their loans getting twitchy - there's huge budget gaps. Both RGs and plate glass, post 92 etc institutions they poached from are now in a total mess.

I've just been at an event with colleagues from all over the country. It's grim. So many of them currently at risk of redundancy, all excellent teachers and researchers whose work helps us better understand the world we live in now. And RG colleagues, too. Students will suffer, teaching will be poorer. Institutions will fold. RG places probably won't close but the student experience will be worse than 5 years ago.

AFrankExchangeofViews · 25/04/2025 18:15

Not as many babies being born meant that universities dont have as many students applying to them anymore. So they are not getting as much in fees. Also the fees that they do get have only gone up about £500 in the last 10 years, but the cost of everything else (costs like electricity and wages) have gone up a lot lot more than that. So now universities dont have enough money to pay their bills anymore, they cant get anymore students, they cant increase their fees, so all they can do is reduce the services they offer to students. And the more they reduce the services, the less students want to choose that uni over one that offers more. Its a downwards spiral that they cant do anything about.

foxglovetree · 25/04/2025 17:40

@rachelhere your friend’s Facebook version of academia bears about as much relationship to what working in the academic world is like as any social media curated fantasy does to being a real person.

Many people have a Facebook feed that makes it look like their life is one long round of holidays, romantic experiences; and “making memories” through wholesome fun. You might put up your snaps of Tenerife; you aren’t going to post about how you spent the evening nagging your children to do their homework and then put on a load of laundry and ran the dishwasher. He is hardly going to put up photos of the exam board he chaired, the marking he did, his graduate supervision sessions, or the zillion meetings he went to that week.

nythbran2 · 25/04/2025 17:31

@Rachelhereyour Facebook friend's travels will not be being paid for by their University. It will be the inviting institions or grants. Universities don't pay for anything academics do except teach - everything else is funded by vert competitive grants.

PurpleThistle7 · 25/04/2025 17:30

Nothing really to add but there’s no way to really know what will be happening in a year or 5. Lots of uncertainty and confusion in the entire sector. My current theory is that they’ll stop having free university (I’m in Scotland and work at a uni here) as that’s just unsustainable.

at the university I work at it’s a whole combination of things happening at once - lower student numbers, the tax increases, global economic crisis after crisis, some really stupid decisions of how to prioritise, huge salaries for academic and central university managers (principal and such), etc etc. But mostly the whole model is flawed and we are having to deal with that.

the students are still having a fabulous time on the whole though! And it’s still an interesting and lovely place to work.

Catrionablocke · 25/04/2025 17:28

hamstersarse · 25/04/2025 16:09

The people who run universities have never run a business

Universities are now businesses

The end

This is it in a nutshell. It's only now that things are so dire that the RG university I recently retired from have started trying to recruit top business people to rescue things. Good luck with that!

ThatLilacTiger · 25/04/2025 17:24

WhySoManySocks · 25/04/2025 16:33

The big, high ranking universities won’t fail.

Cambridge and Oxford will barely feel this. Russel group will be ok, although smaller programmes and modules might be cut and it will be very unpleasant for staff. Expect lots of industrial action. Anything below the Russel group is much more risky.

The reason it changed from 20y ago is that they are now not properly funded. The tuition fees from students have not kept up with inflation, the Government is unwilling to either fund them or allow them to raise tuition fees. And yes, the management is overinflated, overpaid, and stuffed full of failed academics.

I am not sure how this would affect the student experience. Most academics are still incredibly strong internationally and very passionate about their subjects. The incompetent managers don’t tend to go near the classrooms…

The Russell Group won't be fine as they, by definition, rely heavily on research income and international students in a way that smaller universities don't. If anything they're going to be among the hardest hit: not rich enough to weather the storm and not agile or business minded enough to adapt.

U53rName · 25/04/2025 17:21

An acquaintance of mine is head of finance at a Russell Group. We were having a chat a few months ago, and they said that the new rise in employer national insurance contributions was going to cripple the university. The tax went into effect this month. We’ll see how long it takes before real issues take hold.

Tulipvase · 25/04/2025 17:17

GinForBreakfast · 25/04/2025 17:04

Sorry - I meant to quote @Tulipvase !

It’s uni owned accommodation and I assume there are building costs involved but I would hazard a guess that her block is about 40/50 years old at least.

But yes, I guess it’s just all an ongoing cost. It just seems like such large amounts of income.

rachelhere · 25/04/2025 17:12

Hmm. Am Facebook friends with someone I went to school with who is now a professor at a uni. He is here, there, everywhere, constantly on a plane, posts endless photos of conference halls in India, China etc. with him standing in front of the same boring PowerPoint....you just think, is that really the best use of the university's dime? In this day and age? Multiply by the number of people doing that, on top of their wages. Its a bit of a dreamworld, academia, isn't it? It just doesn't matter...until suddenly it does!

LuckysDadsHat · 25/04/2025 17:10

For one factor in really basic terms, look how much your household bills (water, gas, mortgage etc......) have all gone up. Now factor in that in real terms your wages have not gone up since 2017. Most of us would struggle. Unis are the same. Salaries, utilities, interest rates have all gone up massively, and yet students numbers (especially internationals) are dropping very quickly. And also birth rates for the upcoming students are getting less and less. It is a perfect storm. The extra £250 this September increase in students fees is not going to make a blind bit of difference.

GinForBreakfast · 25/04/2025 17:04

Sorry - I meant to quote @Tulipvase !

GinForBreakfast · 25/04/2025 17:03

Sorrysunflower · 25/04/2025 16:47

Look at the uni’s accounts. Do they have loads of investments? If so they’ll be fine. If not, they going under is not unimaginable. All the old unis have stacks of money. Newer unis don’t and should therefore be avoided.

And how are the unis reacting? Edinburgh has loads of investments but is loss making so is taking action to correct it. Better this than having their head in the sand.

Is it University owned and operated accommodation? Or is there private sector involvement? Regardless, it's possible the income is going out to pay back the loan they took to build it in the first place...

GinForBreakfast · 25/04/2025 17:01

The "here's the simple explanation" people are out in force I see. Please take any definitive statements with the large pinch of salt they deserve.

@Fieldmousebonnet the world has changed immeasurably since you went to university - government, technology, jobs, geopolitics... If people who went to university in the 2000s harked back to the 80s we would have thought them nuts. Try not to use your own experience as any kind of benchmark.

The UK and Ireland both have excellent universities. By the time your children come to decide their futures you will be able to choose between lots of good options.

IdaGlossop · 25/04/2025 16:51

My understanding is that plans are being drawn up in government to protect students in the event of a course being withdrawn when they are already part way through it. In practice, that would mean transfer to an equivalent course at the same or a different university. 8n other words, the financial difficulties being experienced in the HE sector should not be a disincentive to your DC applying in the usual way.

Sorrysunflower · 25/04/2025 16:47

Look at the uni’s accounts. Do they have loads of investments? If so they’ll be fine. If not, they going under is not unimaginable. All the old unis have stacks of money. Newer unis don’t and should therefore be avoided.

And how are the unis reacting? Edinburgh has loads of investments but is loss making so is taking action to correct it. Better this than having their head in the sand.

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