To think ugly men are usually vile

Looks are subjective.

Personality less so.

There has been, over the years, a number of very "attractive" men walk into my office. Some of the single (and a couple of not single) women falling over themselves to become close to them because they are deemed attractive and have a decent job and so on.

Being happily married, it was usually easier to see them as whole people rather than anything else. Because of my role I tend to wind up working with everyone quite closely at some point. And many were utterly horrible people, personality wise.

Horrible is horrible. Attractive is subjective. There's conventionally attractive to look at but mostly people become attractive when you get to know them as people and then you find that you actually like looking at them because they make you smile.

And yet DH has a friend who definitely fell down the ugly tree and bounced of every branch on the way down…..but he is the sweetest, very personable, wonderful conversationalist, great with kids etc

I knew one like that... He had a really different side once I got to know him in a dating sense. A surprising misogynist streak, cold and critical behaviour, and secretly a bit of a player who thought he could get away with it. I couldn't work it out... He was really insecure about his looks, but I think his social skills had helped him crack the formula, so he was behaving like an undercover incel with the magic key. The experience definitely taught me that looks mean nothing once you're in the door... The "ugly" man isn't going to be gratefully hanging onto his better looking girlfriend.

Just read your edit. You're not remotely making sense saying someone would come along with a 'NAWALT comment'.

You sound like a raging mysoginist to try and infer something about womenkind in general and MN in particular because a tiny minority of the site's total number of posters have agreed with a thread's premise.

But it hardly reflects badly on MN or womankind in general, does it? When a a third of 190 people reading a thread agree with the sentiment expressed by an OP.

One third is depressingly high.

I knew somebody would come alone with a NAWALT comment.

And two third's DIDN'T agree? So surely the majority who didn't agree are more reflective of womankind and MN than those who did.

I feel sorry for their children to be perfectly honest

One third of 190 women agree with the OP.

Mumsnet have let this thread stand so it must be in the spirit of Mumsnet.

Define ugly? I'. Genuinely trying to work out if I know anyone I could describe as ugly. There are men I don't find attractive but that doesn't equate to being nasty. In fact the most unpleasant man I have known was conventionally very attractive e.g toned tanned sculpted face etc. I don't think looks equate to personality and its shallow to think so.

I've move from the UK to the south of Italy. I don't know about ugly, but men here are commonly much shorter than in Britain. It's one of the biggest cultural differences i've noticed, they are very often horrible. Unbearably competative and agressive with other men, and shockingly misogynistic and controlling with their wives. They are openly unfaithful behind their partners back, and expect other men to cover for them, and celebrate their conquests, almost like it's a lads sport. It seems shallow to chalk all that up to them being short, but i do think that's what it is. I once described my wife as "my best friend" at a social event, and you could cut the atmosphere with a butter knife. They honestly see their wives as inferior to them. I don't like to draw racial stereotypes, but i'd struggle to think of a man here that doesn't fit this mould. I unaffectionately call them the Jack Russels of Europe.

Do you think this is largely because you give handsome men more leeway?

An ugly man your just going to dismiss offhand when they do something bad, but pretty people tend to get more tolerance.

I find all this 'mid', 'high value', 'low value', 'ugly' assessment of other people and of oneself just as vile to be honest.

How does it reflect badly on Mumsnet, far less women in general?

There are only a few women on this thread commenting. It's 3 pages long at present. They don't reflect or represent a cross section of MN, far less womenkind.

What a horrible thread. There are a couple of truly vile responders on here who I hope I never have the misfortune to meet.

This thread reflects very badly on women and Mumsnet.

Other than say, Donald Trump, I think I’d hesitate to call any human being, male or female, actually “ugly”.

There are some people who are objectively speaking, more physically attractive than others. Eg, men and women that many people would agree are highly physically attractive. But generally, it’s quite subjective. I remember when Jennifer Aniston was dating Vince Vaughan and the tabloids ran stories asking how she could go from Brad Pitt to him. I never found Brad Pitt remotely attractive, although I accept he is objectively speaking, a good looking man. I found VV more physically attractive at that time than BP.

So there are men I don’t find physically attractive but it’s not because I think they are “ugly”. Some people I think are plain, or have bad teeth or whatever, but “ugly”? No.

I can understand there might be some bitterness ln less attractive men if they have been treated poorly due to looks but tbh I dated a lot of good looking guys ( at the time I was pretty but not stunning) and they treated me quite badly .
My husband was less typical attractive than I was at the time we met but kind, funny, lovely, success, interesting. Although I’m now menopausal, I’ve gained weight, my skin and hair are dreadful and I’ve aged a lot. Whereas dh is very toned, fit and healthy so he definitely looks better than me now.

Also this. What do you even mean by "ugly"?

So you're just saying that people who are ugly on the outside are generally ugly on the inside?

Original.

(and wrong).

What a vile thread. I don’t believe in “ ugly”. We are all different and shouldn’t think value lies in looking a certain way. Male or female.

How many people are actually ugly, really? I'd say it's pretty rare, and it's usually women. And they're all very lovely. YABU.

Yes I get you OP

Tye ugly men I’ve known are shits

This was actually a topic of discussion on social media fairly recently and you’re not wrong. I (and every single one of my friends) have had similar experiences. The most attractive men I’ve dated have always treated me the best, so personally I stick with that.

Switch men with women and you would fit right in with the incels. I love Mumsnet but the men bashing on here is ridiculous and has led to this website getting a reputation as being over run with bitter women with misplaced anger.

Why do people get upset over threads like this like men are not always saying stuff about women?
women apparently “expire” after 25
we can have our little rants about them as well!