To think ugly men are usually vile

I think the op is maligning the whole
forum quite well herself with such an unpleasant op. That alongside several other threads highlights a really unpleasant tone to the forum now.

Some men can often feel entitled to a girlfriend/ partner, and can often expect a "standard" of attractiveness and accomplishment (at risk of sounding like Jane Austin) that is above the reality of his own situation.

The Andrew Tate and incel movement is of bitter men like this that deflect their inadequacies into blaming women rather than working at becoming a more appealing version of themselves. It's much more unusual for women to naval gaze in this specific way and arrive at this reaction to it.

It's clearly not the majority of men, but there are enough of a minority with this attitude to create a movement like this.

Of course I have the right to be pull people up - just as you have the right to pull me up - as you’re currently doing!

That doesn’t mean people have to agree with me, of course.

But women shouldn’t be immune to criticism from other women. That’s not a road I would ever want society to go down.

*reiterate

Op, in my experience, for some men - not being conventionally attractive, seems to contribute to bitterness, resentment, malevolence, "ishoos" etc.
For others, it does not.

Just like some conventionally attractive men are really not nice people (Armie Hammer for example), while some are, and plenty of people are somewhere in the middle.

(Being good looking also does not preclude being bonkers (Tom cruise for example, considered good looking when younger) or a sociopath or psychopath; serial killer Richard Ramirez was male model-y looking).

Anyway, to riterate, I think you're forming generalisations on relatively tiny numbers of examples.

The fact that you think you have the right to "pull women up on their behaviour" says a lot.

Those are their views. People will always have different views. You can disagree and say why you disagree.

You don't have the right to malign the entire forum and women, like that poster was doing.

Interestingly I've moved to an area where the local people in general are on the smaller than average size

Hobbiton??

The fact that men do XYZ more than women do XYZ doesn’t mean we can’t pull women up on their behaviour 🤷‍♀️

The clue is when the forum and women are criticised due to women saying some things that would be extremely mild compared to what men say on male dominated forums.

There will be women whose views you consider shallow, unfair, unpleasant, or generalisations. That's not a poor reflection of this forum or women; it's reality.

The same (and worse in my experience) exists on male forums.

Expecting it not to exist on female forums - or saying it's a terrible reflection of the forum or women ... . is holding women to higher standards.

It's rather obvious.

I think you and others are forming big generalisations/absolutes on relatively tiny cross sections.

And I doubt every conventionally unattractive man you've met was horrible, and every conventionally attractive man you've met a nice person. That would be impossible in my experience.

It would be also impossible ime for you to have met only kind, nice, interesting conventionally unattractive women. Because I've met plenty of conventionally unattractive women who were not interesting or nice, and some pretty/beautiful women who were very kind, very smart and very interesting. The head of a public development company in my hometown is the best public speaker, best rounded, and one of the most sincere and kind people I've ever met ...she's also still (in her 50s or even 60s) beautiful, and must have been (conventionally) even more so when younger.

People are all different, regardless of looks.

Where is anyone saying they hold women to higher standards?

And their core personality/character - because I believe there's quite a bit of nature ax well as nurture.

Try reading a male dominated forum.

This is rainbows and kittens compared to them.

Holding women to higher standards than men is misogyny.

Insecure people lash out and say and do horrible things. It's the insecurity to be wary of, not subjective looks.

Many years ago my first husband used to bang on about short men.

He really disliked them because his theory was they were bombastic and full of themselves to compensate for their lack of height.

I must add my first husband wasn't known for his rationality.

Interestingly I've moved to an area where the local people in general are on the smaller than average size and there are lots of short men. And actually they just seem to display the normal range of personalities - some good, some bad, and a lot in between.

I think there are a lot of shit men out there, I don’t think how attractive a man is has much bearing on it. It’s more to do with how they’ve been brought up, who they mix with, their experiences and ultimately who they choose to be.

Never noticed this. I've known plenty of ugly men (although I feel horrible saying this) who were nice people. I can't actually think of any "vile" ugly men I've known.

Went there once & swore never again. Being on the receiving end of women's kindness his whole life had given him a huge sense of male entitlement.

Are all the women posting about ugly men supermodels themselves then?

If beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, it makes sense that you would find horrible men “ugly”. Attractive men are often attractive because they are kind. Your sweeping statement makes it sound like you could see a picture of a man and tell if he’s kind or horrid which is clearly absolutely bat shit crazy.

Possibly the stupidest opinion I have ever read on mumsnet. Although the competition is strong.

I don’t think there’s any connection between looks and character. I don’t agree that men who aren’t conventionally attractive have worse personalities (although they might do) but I also don’t agree with the old trope that they’ll be extra nice to make up for the lack of looks. There’s no connection.

I do think some men (and women) end up in a negative spiral, feeling unattractive and bitter so making no effort to improve things.

Prejudice

YABU.

Hurt people hurt people.

When someone is insecure about themselves then it can absolutely turn to anger and hatred towards other people.

Some of the nastiest women I know are so because deep down they’re very insecure.
Same with these men.

But I don’t think it’s just ugly people who are horrible.

I know lots of ‘ugly’ men and they are lovely, I also know lots of mid and gorgeous men who are also lovely.
But I also know lots of ugly, mid and gorgeous men who are utter pricks.

I’m confused why you would give so many men who you thought was ugly a chance.
You need to find someone attractive to be in a relationship with them.

And gently if you’re going into a relationship already thinking someone is ugly and beneath you, then it’s no wonder that these relationships don’t work and they end up disliking you.

Some men are vile but I don’t think it’s purely an ugly man (or woman) issue.