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Is my friend outrageously entitled in her expectations?

214 replies

MariadeiMiracoli · 24/04/2025 11:52

I moved to my current town 18 years ago and got to know a woman renting a house on the cheap from a local who was off travelling. She was an interesting woman who'd given up her teaching job after a few years and gone travelling to SE Asia and South America, teaching English. Very laid back, getting by on benefits and subs from friends and family. Used to do a few hours at the local pub or shop for cash in hand and when she'd built up enough, buy an air ticket and take off to Hawaii or India for a month or two, picking up bar work or sleeping on the beach when she got there, always anticipating that someone would help her out.

About 12 years ago she met a man and moved in with him in Devon. It didn't work out and she ended up in a caravan and, when she turned 55, was housed in a flat in a 55+ development. But she's unhappy: there's noise, one of her neighbours drinks and plays music loud, another has serious MH issues. I visited her there a couple of years ago and thought it was actually rather nice: smart modern flat in a very desirable Devon town and no issues on the days I was there. I've said to her that even in the smartest private flats you can end up living next door to someone noisy but she says she's not prepared to put up with it.

She wants a bungalow with two bedrooms, so she can have a yoga/ meditation/ craft room. She wants a south-facing garden she can tend. It's got to be within walking distance of a decent town, but somewhere quiet and peaceful with a green outlook. And parking because she has a car. She's found a number of HAs (one here near me, where she used to live, one where she lives now and a third in the Bristol area) that have a tiny number of properties that fit her bill. All of them have been built for disabled people. She's been driving around inspecting them and knows precisely which ones she's after.

She's asked for my support to try and get one of her chosen properties in this area. I'm not sure what that will entail, but I suspect it'll involve spinning the truth to match the HA criteria. I've told her very clearly that I don't think there's any way she'll actually get one of these properties and she needs to compromise, but she says that if you don't ask firmly you don't get. Is this how it is now? I don't know what to make of it.

OP posts:
MariadeiMiracoli · 25/04/2025 11:27

GRex · 25/04/2025 11:12

I can't think why they wouldn't want an older woman. Presumably she can cook, garden, babysit, tell stories... personally I would hate having a raft of people on top of us, but those who like that sort of thing might like your friend.

The reason she wants a bungalow is that she wants to be able to shut herself away from people at times. She currently lives in a flat, with someone above and people on both sides. She hears them and their TVs (they're older and they have their TVs up loud) and residents who need support bang on her door day and night. But I suppose if everyone in the communal housing was like-minded and similar to her, perhaps it wouldn't be such an issue.

OP posts:
DancefloorAcrobatics · 25/04/2025 11:23

I can hear her saying to you what she said to me. Something along the lines of 'What's the problem with aiming for what you really want and what would bring you happiness, instead of just settling for what you're offered?

In all honestly, I think your friend has always been able to get what she wanted relatively quickly. So to her it's probably a case of sitting it out for a little bit and 'pulling some strings'.
It's going to be hard once she realises that her luck has run out. The world is a very different place to 20 years ago and I fear she's failed to move along with the times. It could very well be poor MH but I fear some is self inflicted. She's been living in a lovely bubble that is about to burst!

BobbyBiscuits · 25/04/2025 11:20

She's not going to be able to get those things and you can't help her. Tell her just to apply and cross her fingers. It's very unlikely they'll give this to her.
Maybe if the neighbour noise is terrible they'll offer her another flat, but bungalows with extra room for art studios and spare bedrooms are not necessary for a single woman.

It sounds like she's never paid any taxes so frankly she should be grateful for what she does have.

GRex · 25/04/2025 11:13

Giving her options would help if the reality bump of not getting the bungalow is tricky, she sounds like the optimistic type!

GRex · 25/04/2025 11:12

I can't think why they wouldn't want an older woman. Presumably she can cook, garden, babysit, tell stories... personally I would hate having a raft of people on top of us, but those who like that sort of thing might like your friend.

MariadeiMiracoli · 25/04/2025 11:05

Thanks very much. Do they really want older women, though? I guess she can investigate at least.

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fairybower · 25/04/2025 11:04

Iona28 · 25/04/2025 10:03

But it’s ok for them to do this and rely on others to pay for their “ free lifestyle “? I remember we knew people who squatters , now they are older and have their own home they’d be horrified if someone moved in illegally while they were on holidays , I brought it up recently and they couldn’t engage at all or acknowledge it 🤦‍♀️

Some people just don't seem to have that level of consciousness of the realities of life or are poor planners, or think their ship will come in, or they live in the now and it works until it doesn't. Other people through no fault of their own work hard and save and then fall ill and lose their jobs and are turfed from their homes, or their marriage breaks down and they lose their housing. Some people are one pay packet away from complete disaster.

I think it is good that we don't just send everyone off to workhouses these days. But I do find it objectionable when people who are in this position through their own blithe mismanagement have unrealistic demands, like this twit.

GRex · 25/04/2025 11:02

MariadeiMiracoli · 25/04/2025 10:48

I'm not sure communal living would suit her. She wants to be quiet and alone a lot of the time. But I could suggest it. How would she find these places?

This sounds like a great idea for her. Here are some links:

cohousing.org.uk/
diggersanddreamers.org.uk/
www.wearetown.co.uk/cohousing/
www.communityledhousing.london/projects
www.housinglin.org.uk/Topics/browse/Housing/HousingforOlderPeople/Cohousing/

HazelKoala · 25/04/2025 11:02

Yes she is.

But some people just are. I used to be surprised by people who think social housing should be a bespoke service but I'm not any more.

GRex · 25/04/2025 10:58

If your friend just wants a reference to say you've been friends for X years and would like to see her when she's living nearby, fine, presuming you would like to see more of her. Anything else would be "no sorry, I don't have any visibility of that so can't write it in a letter".

If she doesn't meet criteria then she won't get it, but that isn't up to you so leave her to it really. You might want to suggest HA swap schemes to her; I used to know know one person who did this mad sort of multi family swap to get into one place and two more swaps (one of them I think was again multiple families) to get to where she wanted to be. Slightly disruptive for the kids in the short term, but she somehow went from a crap flat in a bad area to a nice small house in a different nicer area (several total location changes though, sizing down and then up again). It was years ago and I think the bedroom tax played a part in it, but swaps are still possible now. Your friend seems like the type who could work out how to game the system well enough to get something she likes much more.

MariadeiMiracoli · 25/04/2025 10:48

Outrageistheopiateofthemasses · 25/04/2025 10:44

You should suggest communal living to her OP. You said she came and mowed your lawn when you were ill, so maybe she is not averse to "helping out" if it is not perceived as work. There are communities who do this in Wales and around Bristol. She would be "off-grid" with like-minded people.

I'm not sure communal living would suit her. She wants to be quiet and alone a lot of the time. But I could suggest it. How would she find these places?

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GasPanic · 25/04/2025 10:47

She does seem over entitled but then a lot of people are these days. And to some degree she is right. If you don't have sharp elbows you won't get what you want.

Has she actually been a bad friend to you ? It doesn't sound like it. She's helped you out in the past. Just that her lifestyle and outlook is different to yours, and she is having to come to terms with the consequences of that.

If I was in this situation and they really were a good friend I would be willing to help them. But I would make it clear that I would not lie or engage in any subterfuge in order to do so.

Of course such a person may take offence at the idea that you thought they wanted you to lie for them, and then use that offence as leverage over you.

MariadeiMiracoli · 25/04/2025 10:44

Hastentoadd · 25/04/2025 09:35

why would anyone choose to work day after day and have all the stress of work when they don't have to.

If everyone had this kind of attitude the world would fall to pieces

I couldn’t be friends with someone who has this kind of attitude, I would find it too frustrating

I should add that she's started saying this more recently, in the last year or two, as her dissatisfaction with her current housing has grown. When we first met 18 years ago I assumed that perhaps she had family money or an inheritance or something that enabled her to live as she did: frugally and making different choices to most people. I'm not sure she did. I think probably her mum sent money occasionally, if she was worried about her, but my friend didn't seem to mind living for a few weeks in her car, or one one occasion in a tent, till the next door opened for her. She didn't complain about it, just took it in her stride, and I've never felt under any pressure to rescue her or give her money.

We're not close friends. I'm very different in my approach to life. I'm not even vaguely spiritual or whatever. But when we talk or meet she is pleasant and positive and funny and has some tales to tell: she's not someone who is always grumbling or miserable. She helps people out and as I say, helped me out when I was immobilised without expectation of recompense. There's no envy of my security. She does her thing, I do mine. This display of entitlement has taken me by surprise, because it's not something I've seen before.

Someone upthread mentioned drink and drugs. No, absolutely not. Vegan, no alcohol, will only take a paracetamol in an emergency.

OP posts:
Outrageistheopiateofthemasses · 25/04/2025 10:44

You should suggest communal living to her OP. You said she came and mowed your lawn when you were ill, so maybe she is not averse to "helping out" if it is not perceived as work. There are communities who do this in Wales and around Bristol. She would be "off-grid" with like-minded people.

SheridansPortSalut · 25/04/2025 10:43

I think that there might be more severe mental health issues here that you're not aware of. Deliberately sleeping rough on beaches or in a car isn't a usual choice. I suspect there's more to it.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 25/04/2025 10:17

Nettleskeins · 24/04/2025 13:25

I think you can tell the truth if asked for supporting evidence and no more than that. Her expectations will shake down, she may have to go back to paid employment. Tbh I wouldn't engage with whether she deserves or doesn't deserve anything: you are not her judge.
People will often tell you what their "rights" are and as long as you don't reinforce their delusions by action it does no harm to listen to castles in the air.

For all you know she may have mental health issues and/or a physical ailments which will be genuine leverage.

She sounds like the type who’ll suddenly ‘develop’ MH issues if she thinks they’ll get her what she wants.

Iona28 · 25/04/2025 10:03

fairybower · 25/04/2025 09:42

I don't mind her being a bit fey and financially lax her entire adult life as many artists, free spirits, spiritual seekers tend to be, or needing financial support and housing now.

It's the idea that she should have a perfect place, because she wants it and feels entitled to it - that if it even existed would be rare as hen's teeth and would be set aside for someone who actually needs it.

A smart modern flat in a Devon town sounds a whole lot better than some places people find themselves when they have fallen on hard times, or are older and displaced. She could be next door to a crackhouse or dealing with masses of damp and black mould, or shouting, DV, and alcoholic neighbours, etc etc etc.

But it’s ok for them to do this and rely on others to pay for their “ free lifestyle “? I remember we knew people who squatters , now they are older and have their own home they’d be horrified if someone moved in illegally while they were on holidays , I brought it up recently and they couldn’t engage at all or acknowledge it 🤦‍♀️

Iona28 · 25/04/2025 09:56

Some of my inlaws are exactly as you describe , they are all “hippys” and this is 💯 a lifestyle choice. On one hand it looks all free and anti establishment but they make no link to the fact that it’s people’s taxes funding it , absolutely no connection or don’t want to obviously.
I’ve heard lectures and pontificating over the years like you wouldn’t believe with no trace of irony and all of them have paid almost zero tax but have managed to get full benefits, houses, they are experts at getting people to help them constantly and then go through friends quickly as everyone gets wise to them eventually. It’s all take, take ,take . One of them literally plans her holidays on how she can get the max out of other people, visiting people so they can eat and not pay , staying with people and not offering a penny , openly asking for stuff , I recently was asked did I have or anyone I know a car they can borrow…. It’s called renting .
There’s no give from them and believe me they know exactly what they are doing , they are a lot more calculating than their “free and easy” image suggests. All with professions of being “self-sufficient “.
@MariadeiMiracoli your friend is wise ,she knows she’s getting older , she wants to set herself up nicely but doesn’t want to pay, plain and simple. I bet she has plenty of people helping her and friends with a van , all hands on deck…. I know this all too well and it’s such hypocrisy and entitlement. Do not help her with this , there are people who are far more deserving.

fairybower · 25/04/2025 09:42

I don't mind her being a bit fey and financially lax her entire adult life as many artists, free spirits, spiritual seekers tend to be, or needing financial support and housing now.

It's the idea that she should have a perfect place, because she wants it and feels entitled to it - that if it even existed would be rare as hen's teeth and would be set aside for someone who actually needs it.

A smart modern flat in a Devon town sounds a whole lot better than some places people find themselves when they have fallen on hard times, or are older and displaced. She could be next door to a crackhouse or dealing with masses of damp and black mould, or shouting, DV, and alcoholic neighbours, etc etc etc.

SusieSheepie · 25/04/2025 09:41

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 25/04/2025 06:12

It is if she's trying to claim she has a non existent disability, so a genuine person gets shoved further down list.

We don't know this, and also this will be impossible even if she tries.

Complete non issue

Pussycat22 · 25/04/2025 09:37

KimberleyClark · 24/04/2025 11:55

This. Expecting everyone else to fund her lifestyle.

Lazy entitled freeloading waste of space. Tell her to get a job !!!

Hastentoadd · 25/04/2025 09:35

MariadeiMiracoli · 25/04/2025 08:44

Yes, she does think that consciously asking manifests things. I don't think she feels any qualms that she is effectively being subsidised by you and me. She often says to me that we are only here once, why would anyone choose to work day after day and have all the stress of work when they don't have to. There are lots of NEETS out there who'd agree with her.

why would anyone choose to work day after day and have all the stress of work when they don't have to.

If everyone had this kind of attitude the world would fall to pieces

I couldn’t be friends with someone who has this kind of attitude, I would find it too frustrating

MistressoftheDarkSide · 25/04/2025 09:00

Should be multiple organ failure, but the autocorrect fail is also correct.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 25/04/2025 08:56

Interesting new twist on benefits bashing, but there you go.

If your friend is real, I will share a tale of woe to reassure everyone that the housing she desires is safe from her entitled little mitts. Get a drink and snacks and settle in.

Last April, my 85 year old Dad, in declining health, became the victim of DV from my 82 year old SM, who had spent three months in hospital and was released early from her eventual section because an arrogant psychiatrist thought her threats and aggression towards him, observed and documented by various ages were "just a marital issue". Long back story, but won't bore you with it.

He turned up at my house with clothes and medication in three bin bags.

The kicker - I was at the end of a Section 21 myself, having been widowed two years previously, my business had folded and as my credit reference was non-existent I'd had to approach my council for help myself. My estate agents had found a property on their books with the Holy grail of a non-picky landlord and not bothered by me being, to my immense shame, on UC. All I needed was the deposit and first month's rent, with them as guarantor, but their delays and prevarication about whether I needed that property, or should be going into a one room situation meant I had to borrow from a friend in the end (I'm 56 by the way, but woykd have been laughed out of their offices had I mentioned over 55 housing).

But what to do with Dad? SM owned the house outright, he was entirely dependent on state support, and private landlords wouldn't touch him with their income criteria.

Back to the council we go. On assessment it was determined he needed sheltered accommodation due to his multiple illnesses and increasing frailty. Somewhere ground floor, or with a lift close enough to his doctors and the hospital. After a month, which included having to provide multiple bank statements, medical evidence, proof of police involvement in the DV situation, and which all kept us in my house for an extra month, leading to me nearly losing my new flat, and racking up an extra months rent arrears, he was offered a temporary place in sheltered housing, that mostly fit his assessment criteria.

Looking back I don't know how we did it, but we got him moved in to a one bed which had been adapted for wheelchair users, which didn't bother him - his health was declining rapidly anyway. Did I mention he was a nuclear test veteran? Just so you know, veterans get no preferential treatment.

So you think this is a happy ending? Refill your cups, get extra popcorn.

These flats have nothing in them. No white goods or cooking facilities. We had to move him in on 24 hours notice, or like the offer, and magic up furniture. Luckily I had some, as I was downsizing, but I still had to beg and borrow from friends. Had to hire a van and thank God for a few sympathetic friends and for my son taking emergency leave from work.

I was then able to move house my self.

What then followed was a concerted effort from one particular housing officer to move him into independent living accommodation. Three times we went through an email scaring the living shit out of him stating if he didn't accept the property they had bid on for him, none of which met the criteria of their own assessment, he would be making himself homeless and they would end their duty of care.

With the first one, which, like the others, was out of his surgery's catchment area, the HA in question agreed he wasn't a suitable tenant. So they withdrew the offer. I had a conversation with his housing officer who was adamant that he could "just register with another GP" despite continuity of care being vital. He could also "just get taxis" as it was in a very out if town location.

On the second attempt I involved the mayor, who I know on Facebook for some reason, who copied in our local MP, approached Adult Social Services (I had already tried to get a safeguarding referral which disappeared into the ether). So far, so good. Same HA, who stated they didn't have any property suitable for my Dad.

Went through the same rigmarole a third time, finally with the input of a trainee SW who was getting us a package of care to support him staying in the flat he was in as it did meet his needs. Then she was transferred just before Christmas and he was "passed back to the office" to apparently dissappear off the radar again.

On the fourth attempt to move him, as he wasted away before my eyes and developed mild paranoia, they tried to tell him that the whole of the complex was temporary accommodation. His pithy response that it might be news to other residents who had lived there for years seemed to change things. Finally they offered him permanent status. They also tried to tell him it wasn't an "extra care" facility. When I sent photos of the big sign in the entrance hall saying in big letters it was, there was a deafening silence from ASC and Housing.

Long story short, he finally, after going through about the tenth "financial assessment" despite being on a state provided fixed income, signed his permanent tenancy from his hospital bed four weeks ago, roughly.

He died last Thursday from multiple organisations failure.

The Coroner is very, very interested in it all.

From my "grief stricken perspective" multiple agencies and my SM basically killed him, and I will not let this lie, no Siree.

So, the free spirit hippy who wants a yoga room will definitely not be handed her bungalow on a plate, just to reassure those pearl clutching about benefits gravy trains and entitlement. It just will not happen, I assure you.

Peace and out.

MariadeiMiracoli · 25/04/2025 08:44

Spicedpear · 25/04/2025 06:30

@MariadeiMiracoliCould she just be very deluded? If she’s a free spirit/hippie/easy life kind of a person she doesn’t sound very grounded. Is it a question of ask the universe & it will be given type of philosophy that she believes in? In a way I too can admire (fleetingly) pple who live very differently & have the guts to travel & live life on their own terms. It will be interesting to see how she tries to procure this bungalow for sure & strange how she expects you to help her in this regard. Hippie manifesting good things from the universe or an entitled CF?? She certainly sounds like she believes she’s entitled to one when she’s far from it which is why she just sounds out of touch with reality (or perhaps a complete chancer). Either way to believe she deserves one over seriously disabled pple is plain wrong & bonkers imo. Makes me thing there’s something missing??

Yes, she does think that consciously asking manifests things. I don't think she feels any qualms that she is effectively being subsidised by you and me. She often says to me that we are only here once, why would anyone choose to work day after day and have all the stress of work when they don't have to. There are lots of NEETS out there who'd agree with her.

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