to be tired of the jealousy towards people who WFH?

@IndigoViolentbut the problem is that less nurses/ doctors/ teachers/ T.A’s is that it’s everyone’s problem. My heart sinks when my daughter’s T.A resigns, it happens at least every six months and then we have two months of her being really unsettled, unhappy to go to school.
Ideally I don’t think the key is making WFH less attractive but making those positions more appealing. But how? Local authorities have no money, the NHS has no money, demean on services is increasing, acuity is more severe. Mental health now is nothing like it was twenty years ago, assaults are now common. Being filmed is now common.
It is something we do for the love of it, but there comes a point where we think why? Especially after you have children, and all the other parents have more money, free time, look less stressed, don’t miss any plays, sports days. We have to all do what’s best for our families.

People are so quick to assume they can’t get hold of public sector workers because they’re WFH and not factoring in that there are so few of us now. My service has 60% fewer bodies than 5 years ago in addition to additional statutory duties coming in. Yup, it’s going to take a while until you reach the top of my list.

And as for the background noise thing when you are trying to talk to me, on the days when we’re in the office we’ve been herded into smaller and smaller spaces and had our mobile phones taken off us. We can only have 1 person on Teams at any one time in the room I have to share with 9 other people, it’s a nightmare at both ends of the call.

Swathes of nurses are saying 'F this, I'm out of here' for many reasons.

I’m not denying that. But making jobs where you can potentially WFH less attractive is not the way to tackle this.

Agree and we do as well.
Just not many days as designing, we find, is easier together.
Along with checking drawings and cross referencing Structural and M&E work too.
Its not not possible, it’s just better together and more constructive,
.
During the pandemic we were able to cope but there was less early design and coordination work going on. Site work obviously continued on site.

I think it depends on the jobs and your role. We have people at home detailing and writing specs for example.

Swathes of nurses are saying 'F this, I'm out of here' for many reasons. I would also question the vocational element these days and guess that most nurses don't recognise the job as what they signed up for. Due to cuts they're not able to provide adequate care in a lot of cases. Anyway, what I was more saying is, take a class of 16 year olds considering their career options. Now that WFH is more common in a lot of jobs that is something people will take into account. Where nursing may have appealed before due to long shifts and unsocial hours but more days off, you've now got people thinking well okay I'd have to do 9-5 but I'd be in the house 5 days a week so it's not so bad.

There's a Pedants Corner on here if you'd like to take your grumbles over there.

It's just jealousy, and a lack of understanding. My job is complex and very niche, but can be mostly done from my computer. It used to involve some travel, but with the increase in use of video-conferencing that's rarely needed now. Most people I know can't get their heads around what I do and as usual when people don't understand something they react badly to it and resort to trying to bring me down.

I happily do my job from home, but I'd also just as happily do it in an office. I have a home office and I work in it all day, only leaving to make a tea or have lunch. I do just as much work as I did when I was in the office, but with less chatting in the kitchen/corridors. I've probably replaced corridor chats with a few mins on MN here and there just to get a mental break!

I don't doubt many people take the piss when WFH. I do get annoyed when colleagues are blatantly minding their toddlers at the same time as working, which is against our employers remote working policy. But at the same time, when I was working in the office, there were individuals who did nothing but chat or find random things to do that didn't need doing in order to avoid doing their actual work. So it's no different. Being physically in a work place does not equal doing actual work.

The way we work was invented a very long time ago when technology wasn't what it is now. I have no idea why people do not want to embrace the chances that are now possible. I believe it's a mixture of jealousy, and everyone knowing at least 1 person who massively takes the piss with it. But skivers are gonna skive. They'll do it in the office just as much as they will at home.

A friend who is actually an architect works from home - unless they need to be at one of multiple sites. Desk work is done at home, site work done on site.

Love this concept. Great that those women's needs are finally being recognised.

I think there are two competing narratives.

The absolutely inflexible 5 days a week 9-5 (at least) did exclude a lot of people from the workforce and was arguably sexist as more women care for children.

So, the flexibility of working shorter days in the office or having a couple of days WFH, in professions where it works, seems really sensible.

OTOH, if this positive effect were significant, we would have seen our GDP per capita surge since COVID. We definitely haven’t!

And, as I said above, professional life is about more than completing tasks. A successful workplace has a supportive atmosphere and a social aspect too, most importantly for younger staff.

As a small example, when I was teaching I had to mentor a youngish second career teacher. She wasn’t really a natural so I often had to deliver a hard message in formal meetings. The reason I was able to do that is by developing a positive relationship the rest of the time, chatting to her, getting her drinks, helping her prepare etc etc. I just don’t know how that kind of informal support works without face-to-face.

Offices didn’t always exist. They emerged to fulfil a need. The internet has reduced part of the rationale for offices but I think it is only a small part.

Agree.
and that’s exactly how we did deal with it.
but some jobs just don’t work remotely.

We had an applicant for a job we had as Site Architect…they wanted to work from home ! ?

Then that is poor management. If staff aren't doing their job, whether in or out of the office, then it needs to be dealt with.

When we first moved to hybrid working a colleague was like that. Could never contact them, seemed to disappear for hours etc. But it was dealt with under poor performance like any similar issue would have been, whether in or out of office.

Exactly...

Maybe those jobs that can't be done from home and people are leaving to find WFH jobs need to have the right compensation and benefits, regardless too.

Why would someone starting their career choose an on site job, let's say nursing, where there's mandatory overtime, they have to pay for parking, get no flexibility AND they get paid less than a WFH admin assistant?

Society should be compensating roles right, not whining that WFH roles are the reason the NHS is on its knees.

I had moved to hybrid working before lock down, and have been entirely WFH (aside from occasional meet up days every few months) since 2022. It's a massive game changer for me. I can manage my health conditions much much better, working during the time I would normally commute. Yes I can throw the cooking on in my lunch break, or hang the washing out, but these are done during breaks that would be taken even if I was in the office.

When I am particularly busy, I can work late a lot more easily rather than leave the office as I need to be at home for something. And my kids can do their hobbies (outside of work time) a lot more easily because I don't have to add on a commute to my day.

If I have a question I can't answer, I can contact colleagues via messaging systems quickly and easily. I can also transfer a call if I need to. I spend money locally now rather than at chains near work base.

This afternoon my son has a medical telephone appointment. Rather than have to take 40 minutes either side of the appointment to get home to him, I just need to take the 45 minutes needed for it.

It really isn’t a good point at all. Do you honestly believe swathes of nurses are saying to themselves “Well, it was alright going into nursing when the alternative was an office job, but now I could do that same job from home I wish I’d been an accounts clerk instead”? Nursing is obviously an exceptionally challenging profession, but you must admit there’s at least some vocational element to it for the majority of those who go into it. It certainly isn’t for the money. So why weren’t all these unhappy nurses applying for office jobs in the first place?

The same goes for all the hospitality staff and delivery drivers the PP is convinced will now be flocking to WFH jobs. Why weren’t they doing these jobs when they were 100% office-based? Better paid jobs with more sociable hours? Did they just really hate the idea of an office, but now love the idea of these jobs because they can be done from home, and therefore will be swapping waitressing for being an administrative manager tomorrow?

Maybe, just maybe, they were waitressing or driving a van or working in a warehouse because they didn’t have the right skills or qualifications for these jobs. Guess what - they still don’t. And if WFH jobs are in great demand, surely employers can be pickier about who they hire? Why would they want an unqualified waitress who just doesn’t fancy being on her feet all day anymore? I keep hearing people like you talk about how there’s no incentive to do in person jobs when you could “just take a WFH job”, but the point is you can’t “just take” one. You have to have the skills, qualifications, aptitude - and more importantly, the job offer.

We had this with our employees unfortunately.
It was very difficult for us and clients to get hold of them. They may answer the phone and say they’re at their desk but when asked to check something up on a drawing they didn’t have access to it, because they were actually out and about.
When everyone came back to the office productivity increased.

Im aware it’s not an issue for many businesses but it didn’t work for ours.

I think for many people it’s an excellent idea particularly if there are other family commitments or for those with a long commute.

I'm amazed nobody has highlighted our resident GP's hypocrisy. @SalfordQuays. Just after lockdown ended, GPs were in hiding. Funnily enough 'working' from home. As it still takes a ridiculous amount of time to get a GP appointment, I hardly think you're the best person to be talking about the quality of work being affected by remote working.

I hope they left. Or were sacked.

EHCP applications are not delayed because people are working from home. Councils are massively underfunded and deliberately string out and block EHCP’s to preserve their struggling budget.

Sometimes at lunchtime I stick something on to slow cook. Or if it's a slow day work wise I might take 15 minutes to prep some veg for fajitas or something. But I'm working, so I never really plan to cook something like that.

I do stick a wash on before the nursery run and hang it out in place of a coffee break. But on an office day, I can spend 20 minutes in the kitchen trying to escape the people who just want to chat, when I just want a coffee. So 🤷

Other days I forget to stop for any breaks cos I've loads on and calls never stop.

I've worked from home for part of my job now for over 20 years. My old job we hot-desked with 1 desk for every 5 employees in the office base. I went in more than once to find there were no desks free! Most of the time was spent with service users or clients at their workplace, and by the time I would have got to the office from the last appointment, I was as well heading home where I was guaranteed a desk!
My job now is mostly WFH for non-client-facing work. I have my own desk in the office, luxury after previous job!!! Depending on where I've been seeing clients, I head home or to the office but find I get more done at home.
I think the pandemic did a lot of good for people who WFH as it made people realise that you can get just as much work done etc etc. I'm sure there are people who play the system too! You get that in every job.

Someone like you should work in an office environment to thrive. Me on the other hand cannot stand being around people. I get so drained and easily distracted from chatter, noise and smells I just want to be by myself in my own space. Different people with different needs

Envy is about what people don’t have and would like, there is nothing wrong with that. It can actually be helpful identifying changes that we’d like to make in our own life. If we become the source of envy we should be gracious about it.