to be tired of the jealousy towards people who WFH?

I agree that nurses aren't paid enough for what they do, but the average nurse earns more than the average woman. I also thought career opportunities were there, but I'll take your word for it if they're not. However, I do believe there are pay increments for experience, which is not the case for many shift-based jobs.

When I said 'unsociable hours' I meant, in my opinion.

You start getting in a tricky situation then - WFH for me is an adjustment for disability so should my colleagues who go into the office get more money?

my WFH is very different to other people, I’m paid to sit at my desk and answer the phone. If I’m not on a call I can MN/read a book/stroke the cat/anything that doesn’t involve moving but I can’t leave my desk
if the doorbell goes I ignore it, no DC but wouldn’t be allowed to do the school run or take time to get laundry out etc

Totally understand why they'd like it. Because I love it and I feel lucky I can do it.

Don't understand the people who are mad that others have it and spend time ranting about how all WFHers are lazy or shouldn't have the benefits of it because some careers can't be done from home. I'm not angry that barristers get paid much more money than me, because I didn't train to be a barrister. I did, however, train to do my role and specifically worked towards a role that could be done from home and with flexible hours, because that's what I wanted out of my career and for my family.

If you'd like something like WFH more than your chosen career, do something about it. Much like if you want a car with Bluetooth and sat nav but yours doesn't have it, do something about it. Retrain, save, whatever. Just do what you need to, to make your life what you want rather than being angry that someone else has it.

If you're doing a job that can be done from home but the company won't allow it, look for another company. If you're in a profession that requires you to be on site and you don't want to commute anymore, you weigh up whether you want to change profession to WFH more than you want to stay in that profession.

I'm using "you" as a general term, not directly at you.

I have no issue with how anyone works, as long as you enjoy what you do - between all the boring stuff. Within the next 30 years our professional roles will be unrecognisable. I know a lot of people think that ‘their’ job is immune to AI but unless you’re a Prompt Engineer or you fill some other tech role then you will be replaced. And you won’t even see it happening first your pay won’t change, or it might increase but not to the level it should, then the working week will go from 5 to 4 days, then you’ll watch your children unable to get a job, then you’ll be laid off, and then you’ll find it hard to get a new job.

In the meantime, and before all that happens I do agree that people working from home impacts other services. The lockdowns give clear insight and data into this; let’s not forget the passport fiasco, and the driving tests! An industry which is still smarting from the effects of lockdowns and forced confinement. Healthcare, I know of three surgeons (one a very good friend), who left their jobs after covid and retrained - what do they do know…hybrid jobs. Why would you want to be a teacher working in leaky classroom when you can have a nice comfy work from gig.

Socially we becoming digital hermits, and the impact is going to be huge particularly on young people who are entering the job market, previously offices were buzzing with energy, giving one exposure to a landscape of different people so one could develop communication skills, confidence, networking skills etc… Now offices are like graveyards.

One industry which will thrive as a direct result of the above is mental illness, but why pay for a therapist when you can just speak with chatGPT, and honestly it’s pretty good.

I would absolutely support that!

Lots of jobs increase wages or benefits to attract people, I don’t feel jealous when some random other job gets an increase and honestly won’t care or be jealous/resentful if it happens to in person jobs like nursery workers, I hope they go get there bag if it happens.

@SatanicAngelI’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying perhaps the nursery workers also on MW who have to commute and pay childcare should be paid extra to compensate. Would you support that? Or would you feel resentful?

or answer queries about universal credit

@Gandalfatemyhamster that is literally my job! I earn MW, and WFH. Why shouldn't I get the opportunity to WFH just because I'm a low-wage earner? Maybe tackle the actual problem, which is that jobs like nursery worker or healthcare assistant are chronically underpaid and have shitty conditions! Perhaps if people were paid more for doing the hard jobs less people would want to WFH.

@SatanicAngel but others having those things don’t impact you. But a world without or with significantly less people who have to work outside the home WOULD. So it’s fine for people to be envious, but when they leave in droves, as they are currently (teaching, nursing, dentistry, social care, childcare in particular) and you’re just left with the people who can’t get anything else, that’s when we’re in trouble.
So what’s the solution?
A two tier system where those who work outside the house earn more? Would that suit the WFHers or would they moan?
Because otherwise why is anyone going to be a nursery worker or a healthcare assistant? If you have the skills to do either of those roles I expect you could also sell insurance from home or answer queries about universal credit or pet insurance?

I think everyone understands why you'd be envious.

There's not a day goes by that I'm not grateful and that my life isn't infinitely better WFH.

I think the point of this and all the other threads isn't that WFH don't understand the benefits or why people would be envious, but that the envious people want everyone else to be in the office being as unhappy as they are.

At least you're being honest about it.

Most people are just being bitchy and envious without admitting it.

The exchange I had a few posts back was valid and informative but most people are like you, just pissed off and envious that they can't have it.

So, because you can't do it, no one else should either? I'd love a 6-figure salary, a Porsche and a holiday home in Italy, I can't have any of those (outside of a lottery win) yet I don't begrudge the people who do have them. Nor do I moan about how unfair it all is!

I'm desperate to work from home. Can anyone point me in the direction of something that could use my skillset. I'm a humanities graduate and currently managing a historic restaurant but I really want to switch roles, with commute I work 13 hours a day easy.

There's lots of things I would like. A bigger house, a nicer car, more holidays. I don't spend my time jealously ranting about people who have those things. Life isn't equal.

Given all the positives many people have given about wfh, do you understand now WHY those of us who do not have the privilege of wfh are jealous??
If you enjoy the benefits, it should be quite easy to understand that others would also like to enjoy those same benefits- but will never be able to because they have chosen careers that cannot be done from home.

Right backatcha!

It was a great post and as a WFH person who is very defensive of the blanket and often offensive criticisms of it which aren't at all specific to my situation,or many others - I really gained knowledge from your post about why it may be valuable for some.

I wish you a lovely day 💕

@SpoonyRedOtter ,

You are an incredibly rare poster on chat fora, in that you actually read my argument and engaged, rather than straight to attack mode.

So, thanks for that!

That's an excellent post to be fair.

But I don't think applies to all jobs. Doesn't apply to mine or many others.

I'm not a good mentor because I'm not supposed to be one. So my attitude to that is irrelevant. But I know when I was working in an office I was constantly bothered by pointless questions.

Now I'm not, people are much more considered in the advice they seek from me.

I think what you're talking about is applying to specific jobs where we're talking about supervisor/manager jobs.

I was talking about more experienced workers, not supervisor/manager jobs.

More experienced workers shouldn't be expected to observe less experienced workers to check for signs of stess etc.

I think what's happening on this thread as for many others, is people objecting to WFH based on their own jobs.

And a lot of disgruntled people who wish they could WFH but can't wanting to project that on everyone else.

With a lot of envy included.

@SpoonyRedOtter ,

‘What prevents someone from getting training and support via teams or over the 'phone or email?
I'm not understanding all the hand-wringing about the idea that someone more experienced has to be physically present just in case a less experienced worker has a question?’

If you’re not physically present, you can’t be preemptive, just reactive. You can’t physically see someone getting stressed about a deadline, for instance, and step in and help.

‘Why? Surely their expertise is what's needed and they don't have to be physically present to provide that expertise?’

Up to a point, it is a combination of expertise and also the encouragement and emotional support only a human being can provide.

‘It's actually usually very helpful that they're not so the inexperienced worker actually thinks about what they're being asked to do and can often come up with the solution themselves. And if they can't, still have access to the more experienced worker to ask and be responded to.’

Not really. You can tell someone to have a think in an office just as easily, if you judge what is required.

‘I think often, more experienced workers can be more productive at home as they're not constantly being interrupted with pointless/anxious queries and WFH deal with more legitimate questions.’

I think this shows an attitude that doesn’t make for a good mentor. If someone is repeatedly asking ‘pointless’ questions, you need to address the problem by talking to them about it, not just physically absent yourself.

For example if they lack confidence to solve problems themselves, the mentor needs to have strategies to improve their confidence. If they are asking pointless questions because they can’t find the answers, thought needs to go into how to make the answers more accessible. And, if they genuinely can’t do the job, they need to be managed out, but hopefully that is rare if your recruitment process is solid.

Probably the easiest management job to do from home is managing someone out! But I prefer for that to be a last solution, not my go-to one.

So if all the more experienced people are now WFH who will provide the training and support that you were lucky enough for the first 20 years of your career?

@Macaroni46 in my own case that’s irrelevant as I don’t work for the same company or exact type of business, just the same general profession. My current company has everyone fully remote, I couldn’t go in if I wanted to. My old workplace has no one remote and that’s not likely to change so there are plenty of experienced staff left.

As a wider point, I do think this is a concern for future generations. Saying that, I currently train, support and line manage a large team of widely ranging ages effectively from home, but it does have its limitations. Teams calls and messages are not the same as being in the same office. I’m always looking to learn and develop my own skills in this area.

Replies like yours and a few others do rather make the OPs point though!

I’ve only done wfh and have had amazing training and mentors as well as crap ones.
but it’s not wfh specific, I’ve had friends on graduate jobs being pretty much ignored in an office, you get good and bad training in all sorts of jobs not just wfh.

What prevents someone from getting training and support via teams or over the 'phone or email?

I'm not understanding all the hand-wringing about the idea that someone more experienced has to be physically present just in case a less experienced worker has a question?

Why? Surely their expertise is what's needed and they don't have to be physically present to provide that expertise?

It's actually usually very helpful that they're not so the inexperienced worker actually thinks about what they're being asked to do and can often come up with the solution themselves. And if they can't, still have access to the more experienced worker to ask and be responded to.

I think often, more experienced workers can be more productive at home as they're not constantly being interrupted with pointless/anxious queries and WFH deal with more legitimate questions.

Selective quote there. Do you care to share which of the three out of money, job satisfaction and career opportunities you think nurses are being compensated with these days?

Edit - and for clarity, 12 hour dayshifts aren't considered unsocial hours.

The people who don’t enjoy WFH and instead choose to work in-office or hybrid. Plenty of them in this thread, plenty of hybrid and on-site roles available – not all experienced people want to WFH.