Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

@Parker231

Yes, I understand that - I just mean that atheists can (and do) believe in an afterlife, because atheism refers only to the non-belief in deities.

I don't need the gods or religion to be a good person either. I believe all deities exist and am part of a religion (pagan polytheism) - but paganism doesn't come with a set list of rules or moral instructions, so my personal morals and ethics have been developed entirely separately from my religion.

In any case, pagan polytheism doesn't threaten non-believers.

I don’t believe in any afterlife - it’s impossible regardless of what people want to kid themselves with.

i don’t need a god or religion to be a good person - I am not a sinner (horrible phrase). Can’t be threatened with something which doesn’t exist.

I find chaos magic interesting, although it's not my primary approach. But I definitely want to explore more of it.

I know the 'psychological model' of magic is popular within chaos circles (although not all chaos mages see it that way.) Personally, I do believe that deities, and other spirit entities of all kinds exist, as well as creatures from folklore (if you're spent much time in pagan circles, you'll see people talking about belief in/engaging with fairies, etc, and I know people who include interactions with fairies in their personal practices.)

@Parker231

Atheism refers solely to the non-belief in deities, so someone can be an atheist and believe in an afterlife of some kind. Many atheists don't believe in an afterlife either, of course, but I've met and known atheists who do believe in a spirit realm/continued existence after physical death. Obviously they don't see this afterlife in terms of 'Heaven' and 'Hell', but, nor do I (and I'm a theist.)

I can believe that in some rare cases medical conditions etc can improve etc because the human body is incredibly complex and not fully understood. Ascribing such occurrences to divine intervention just means it's inexplicable but we don't like the inexplicable so we construct a narrative to suit our beliefs.

I have experienced the unexplained. I believe there are forces as yet beyond our Ken.

What I refuse to do is claim they are of divine or intentional origin or dependent on my beliefs, because I don't know. Nor do I expect anyone else to believe me, nor do I make my interactions with people conditional on their believing me, nor do I think or hope for them to be punished for not sharing my beliefs or not believing in my experiences. I don't believe I am duty bound to convince people of my experiences, nor tell them they are condemned if they don't, because I can't explain them.

If I told you about amazing healing miracles I'd heard about, or lesser healings seen or ministered by myself, you would not accept my word would you?

I posted names of some people who explain the Bible very well. Ian Andrews is an English guy who I have met and I know friends of his. He is very down to earth and credible. His American friend James Maloney is more outgoing. They both have amazing healing ministries. Stuff happens.

What proof of a healing might you accept? A church setting up video cameras, with independent witnesses to testify that it wasn't faked? With prior written consent from all those who may go forward for prayer of course. Hospital consultants providing reports of metal surgical implants or cancerous masses that were present but don't now appear in X rays and they can't explain why?

People write books, or post podcasts, including such healings. You can find some if you're interested. If you want a peer reviewed medical journal paper saying a certain hospital keeps getting patients coming back with missing implants or tumours, or new hip joints or lungs, then - sorry - no professionals are going to trash their careers by doing that in a cynical, sceptical world.

My DS and I had a fundamentalist Christian extremist tell him that he wouldn't need his wheelchair if only he believed. We were very polite to her. Part of me wanted to punch her in the face and stamp on her, but she would not have known it. I'm better than that (yes, I know the sin is in the thought and not the deed, and I do not care). The arrogance, the presumption - astonishing.

I am grateful for the life I have - the one life, that is. I've had some really tough times in my life and never once felt the need for a deity. When I die, my component parts - molecules, energy - will return to be part of the universe. That's enough eternity for me.

I’m so sorry, that’s so unthinkably cruel.

I’ve known some genuinely very kind religious folk but an awful lot of unkind ones who are cruel under the guise of ‘spreading the word’.

Sorry for your loss

I think atheists have a much happier and worthwhile life as we know it’s the only one we’ve got.

We’re not worried by the non existent heaven, sins, hell, devil, day of judgement etc or false promises of an afterlife.

He’s lodging at KeepHopeful’s place.

You know perfectly well you can’t prove that anymore than you can prove the non existence of anything invisible.

What also blows my mind is that certain faiths would reject a blood transfusion due to their beliefs. I can half understand them rejecting it for themselves, their body their choice and all I suppose, but to think that religion is so important to them they would be willing to let their child die, is unthinkable to me. I would hope the state would step in and override that decision.

I was told my DP died of cancer because he was a Goth, by an alleged JW. Said delightful specimen took it upon herself to message me shortly after he passed to spread her rather unpleasant version of "the truth" and condemn me to everlasting torment if I didn't change my ways. There's a whole thread on here I started at the time. So, I'm rather opposed to "believers" as often they are sheep in wolf's clothing it seems.

She offered to exorcise me as I'm obvious demonic in nature. As far as I'm concerned the concept of God is on itself one of the most destructive forces in human history.

@KeepHopeful

Would Jesus really describe the life of kind, loving, caring people as ‘meaningless’ had they not said they believe in him by the time they die? All the good things they did on earth for other humans is ‘meaningless’ if they aren’t Christian?

I think sometimes your wording is less than ideal when it comes to communicating a faith supposedly based on love and forgiveness. To describe people’s lives as being meaningless if heaven doesn’t exist is borderline offensive!

Where is god ? I’m in my mid 50’s - he’s taking his time showing himself.

No. Evolution is a theory that many experts pick holes in and many people totally reject. That doesn't come anywhere near proving God's non existence.

Prove that there is no God, since you are so convinced.

As you well know, proving anything is done by looking at all of the facts to support a given position. So far, every fact points to there not being a god. It’s for those postulating that there is to provide the evidence for their theory.

Which then leads to the question, which god? There are well over 3,000 gods believed around the world today, and anthropologists estimate there have been over 18,000 in history. And yet, despite the huge number, no evidence to support the existence of any of them.

But there doesn’t need to be - at their core all religions are a codified set of values, beliefs and rules that help some people make sense of the world. And that’s fine. You are free to believe :)

Definitely my choice. It’s the same for everyone. Live the best life you can as it’s the only one you’ve got.

Yes, sort of. Accidental and chaos, mainly lol. Strong affinity with the tarot, which I have been practising for 30 years plus.... the Crowley deck.

I'm pleased that you have a happy life. God offers you an even happier life without end if you want it.

But you have to say "yes". Your choice.

Where is he, what’s he done - negatives to both. The world was created by evolution - science is amazing . I love it.

Prove he exists - you can’t.

Christians are challenged to prove that God exists, He made the world, in six days, Jesus was resurrected, the Flood, the ark and so on and so on ad infinitum. Often not out of genuine interest in the truth but to justify their non belief or perhaps to wind them up.

It works both ways. Show me positive proof that God does not exist.

My life is not meaningless - it’s been pretty amazing. 30 year marriage and counting, DT’s who I adore, live in a beautiful country and have enjoyed everything about my life. Nothing to look back on with regret. When I eventually die, I’ll be very grateful for the life I’ve lived.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Are you an occultist/witch?

Ok, if you didn’t have children. You’d then break bread with a convicted paedophile in your home at the say so of your priest?