Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

There is zero evidence of medical implants disappearing. Zero. There are many cases of misdiagnosis where scans have been misinterpreted. So it seems to me far more likely that that’s the explanation, and indeed there are any number of medical negligence cases that confirm misdiagnosis.

To date though, no healing evangelist has provided any evidence other than saying ‘they are healed’ , and no healing evangelist has submitted any evidence for peer review by doctors, which is the normal process for new theories.

I think it’s spectacularly cruel to give the sick false hope. Paraphrasing someone here, but when someone religious offers to pray for my family when they are ill, I thank them for their concern. It’s a nice gesture - it shows they care. But, don’t stop the medical treatment!!

Yep, because anecdote is all it is. Meaningless.

Your miracle workers refuse to hold themselves up to the same scrutiny that fallible human scientists submit to every day. I know who merits the trust here.

There was nothing in my post to indicate I thought Ian was lying. He was relaying what he was told by the other guy (James?). In fact saying James gets angry when challenged seemed like a very telling (and honest?) thing to say because that does not reflect well on James.

I haven’t got any further than the lady with the height growth yet.

Do you believe a 4’8” woman grew to 5’7” while being hugged by James (sorry forgotten his last name)?

God is not manipulated into trials devised by people. People's faith for a particular thing is nowhere near constant or predicable. Scientific trials are out of the question. So it comes down to anecdotal evidence, which medical people reject even if similar things happen many times.

Snap!

You really need to take off the conspiracy hat.

Doctors absolutely do not trash alternative medicine. What they do is test it, using a proper research methodology including placebo controlled double blind clinical trials. And if something is found to be safe and effective, it will make it into clinical practice. I worked in health research for 12 years, I know the processes involved very well.

And alternative remedies absolutely do make it into clinical practice. Modified ketamine infusions are now available for treatment resistant depression. Trials into modified forms of psylocibin are ongoing and looking promising. Tamoxifen for breast cancer was initially derived from yew before the compound was synthesised.

The difference is that none of these treatments were taken on a leap of faith - they were tested properly and thoroughly, with the safety of patients always first in mind.

Do you SERIOUSLY think doctors would do anything to encourage it, any more then they encourage alternative medicine that actually works?

Who? God or IA?

Really? What would your doctor DH do if he knew of such healings?

I wonder how much he charges???

I don't know many po faced Christians! The churches I know are happy places.

God didn't have a wife.

You’re sounding ridiculous now - fanciful.

If you spent a bit more time listening to these ppl you might be more inclined to believe them.

I know plenty about Ian Andrews. He's a very honest straightforward guy. He used to be a chartered accountant before going into healing ministry. He doesn't encourage people in stupidity or deception.

I know numerous people with involvement in or knowledge of healing ministry. They are all sensible people. I'm pretty sceptical about a lot of things in life, and I'm wary of religion-related things that don't sound right. God does heal.

KeepHopeful · Today 11:35

I don't know how seriously to take this

My username is from a song and probably the best Rory Gallagher tribute act. Actually, that may be The Mississipi Sheikhs...

Anyhow, I will have to assume that when Jesus saves you, he makes you all po faced, so another reason to reject superstition. They change drastically over time, evolving far away from their original message.

I mean, what happened to God's wife, for example?

What proof of a healing might you accept? A church setting up video cameras, with independent witnesses to testify that it wasn't faked? With prior written consent from all those who may spontaneously go forward for prayer of course. Hospital consultants providing reports of metal surgical implants or cancerous masses that were present but don't now appear in X rays and they can't explain why?

People write books, or post podcasts, including such healings. You can find some if you're interested. If you want a peer reviewed medical journal paper saying a certain hospital keeps getting patients coming back with missing implants or tumours, or new hip joints or lungs, then - sorry - no professionals are going to trash their careers by doing that in a cynical, sceptical world.

Doctors protect their profession against any other means of healing. There is no way they will publicise God's supernatural healing. Look how they trash most alternative medicine.

I don’t believe god exists so he has nothing to do with health care. Btw - DH is a doctor.

I’ve just looked them up. I’ve read a few paragraphs so don’t know too much but what I’ve read so far is : James Maloney told Ian of a time he hugged a 4’8” lady who wanted to be 5’7” and she grew to that height within this hug!

Ian then said if you wanted to get James angry all you had to do was challenge one of these miracles (seems a strange thing to say about someone you’re supporting?). When questioned about her clothes not splitting James retorted, “don’t you think god is capable of making clothes grow”.

That’s it, I’m converted

Agree it is not physically possible. God is supernatural.

If you know anything at all about the medical profession, you'll know that it protects itself strongly against anything else that claims to heal unless medical ppl invented it. Think alternative medicine. Think opposition to homeopathy and herbs.

If these things happened, the medical community would be very interested. They aren’t because it’s not physically possible.

Masses do not suddenly disappear through natural recovery, radiation or chemo. Metal surgical implants do not disappear by any natural process.

In this sceptical world, I think somebody would expose a healing evangelist who was faking healings. Listen for yourself to the people I name and decide on their credibility.