Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

His expertise is in flight and birds though. He has studied wings and feathers and found them to be evidence for creation not evolution

The problem is that Andy Mcintosh is a professor of thermodynamics. He isn't a geologist, nor is he a biologist, nor is he a paleontologist.
If I want some glazing done in my house I'm unlikely to take advice from a plumber (however good a plumber they might be)

Can’t wait! Should I go to work or is someone going to round me up as a non believer and put me on a one way train to hell?

As you can guess I don’t believe your comments at all. World disasters unfortunately happen all the time, but the world hasn’t come to an end.

You mean the Rapture? Nobody knows. People can only look at world events and trends, compare them with Bible prophecy, and conclude that there is no reason why it should not be very soon. Some ppl think the Pope's death is very significant.

There are lots of relevant vids on YouTube, but I can't comment on their accuracy or predictive value. I agree with their common theme that a lot of things in the world are happening fast.

I found the pp explanation of the from of the second coming quite interesting. It explained things I wasn’t aware of. However, one can’t help quickly running the numbers on the free and then $0.99 ebook. Roughly a quarter of Christians are at the ‘Evangelical’ end of the scale, which gives you around 700 million people. If only 1% download that ebook, and a second for a friend, that’s a little under $7 million income.

Now, I was criticised in the first thread for saying that I thought religion exploited its believers, and I hate to be cynical, but surely the Christian thing to do if you have important information on such a major event is to give it everyone everywhere freely and as quickly as possible. Or at least to all your believers. The fact that’s it’s for sale makes it hard for me not to draw the conclusion that this is a money making exercise first and foremost. I hope not, because I think people should believe if it helps them and they want to, and shouldn’t be criticised or taken advantage of for doing so.

You regarded AiG as a source reliable enough to quote to others to support your views. And you didn't even bother to look into who they are and what they do.

P. T. Barnum would've loved you.

There's lots of websites that will happily explain why the earth's flat. The only difference is that there's a lot more money in young earth creationism so the websites are flashier.

with that level of detail, when is it happening?

I hadn't read that, I agree, it doesn't sound scientific or open minded! Other sources I quoted though, such as the professor from Leeds, are likely more reliable.

Just because your local Starbucks may have an archaeology graduate working there doesn't make that Starbucks a historic dig site.

What AiG does is not science. As part of their "Statement of Faith" on their website are these words:

No apparent, perceived, or claimed evidence in any field of study, including science, history, and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture obtained by historical-grammatical interpretation.

In other words, any evidence that don't fit in with their interpretation of the Bible is automatically regarded as false. THAT'S NOT SCIENCE. That's apologetics. Your misinterpretation of what they do as being science is why your understanding of evolution is so deeply flawed.

There will be events preceding Christ's return to Earth. He will take His believers up into Heaven without coming down here Himself. The church calls this the Rapture, but that word isn't used in the Bible.

Straight after the Rapture, the Antichrist will be revealed. The seven year Tribulation then begins. The first half, 3.5 years, will be increasingly horrible. The second half, the Great Tribulation, will be dreadful. A large proportion of the population will be killed.

That will end with Christ's return. He will come in glory, as an adult. Everybody will know that He is Lord. People who have become believers between the Rapture and Second Coming and who have survived the Tribulation (many will have died) will join Jesus in His thousand year reign on Earth. Non believers will be sent to Hell.

It's important to know that the Bible says non believers cannot accept Jesus and His salvation once He returns. To be saved, people must accept Jesus before His return. To be taken to Heaven before the Tribulation, they must be saved before the Rapture.

Timing -

Second Coming is 7 years after the Rapture.

The Rapture could happen any time now. All Bible prophecies required to precede it have already been fulfilled. With the world in such turmoil and the increasing pace of political, military and societal change, it looks as if the Rapture will happen soon.

Disclaimer. Some Christians have different interpretations, but I believe this one is the majority view.

This link may help:

www.thelivinggospel.org/studies/end-times/the-second-coming

BTW this site offers a free ebook on the Rapture, and a special offer of two more ebooks for $0.99. I got the freebie, but the page didn't work for the $0.99 offer for me.

Yes, though like I said, I don't reject the possibility of deities having some kind of role in the development of the physical world. But the idea isn't necessary for my theism.

@BunnyLake

Yep, that's pagan polytheism. :)

I’m a Catholic, I also believe in evolution. I don’t believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. But I believe in the existence of Jesus Christ, and the events of his execution. I believe in His teachings and I’m open minded about the existence of an overarching God and afterlife, although if it was scientifically disproven I would accept that (hard to prove a negative though). I feel Jesus with me, and when people ask how, I guess it’s like asking how you know you love your kids/spouse - you just do. It’s a feeling within you that can’t be proven but is very strong. I feel more connected to him than an omnipotent God, I guess because He knows our struggles and lived them Himself.

I don’t believe in god but I love the idea of different gods for different things. I could even get on board for that 😄

Is this thread only about Christians who believe in creationism? Catholics eg believe in evolution.

"And I have a lot of time for believers who can sensibly discuss what they feel gods role is, in the framework of what is known"

@ZoggyStirdust

While I'm open-minded to the idea that there could be some involvement within such processes from deities, I wouldn't say I actively believe that to be the case or am tied to it in any way.

I believe all gods and goddesses exist, but that belief is not predicated on them being involved in creating/developing the physical universe. Could they, or at least some, of them have had some kind of part? Again, I'm not totally dismissive of the idea, but nor do I think it needs to be the case either.

Christianity is compatible with evolution because it doesn’t require a literalist interpretation of scripture. It has a long history of biblical exegesis, so it is Christine scholars who have carried out forensic analysis to discover evidence of date / likely linguistic and geographical origin / authorship of different passages. There are two different creation stories in Genesis with different origins st different points in history and different theological emphases beyond understanding the origins of everything we experience.

Perhaps, in that case, you could provide some empirical, verified facts that support creationism.

And while we are at it, let’s postulate that the earth was created, a few thousand years ago and didn’t evolve. How do you reconcile the literally millions of verifiable bits of evidence that point to the existence of life on earth billions of years before that. Are we to accept that god created life on earth, waited a few billion years, thought ‘what we need here is mankind’ , created mankind, had a rethink and drowned almost very living creature and person and then started again? And we are meant to believe that without a scintilla of evidence?

This thread, or its predecessor at least, started out as an interesting debate on religion and Jesus’s death. Religious beliefs help people make sense of the world, their lives and their place in it. People are free to believe or not believe, and no one has judged anyone for taking the view they have. It’s been, broadly, a sensible and balanced debate. But, once we wander into the realms of ignoring 5 billion years of history and evidence of life on earth to suit a story then I’m sorry, but your position is not credible. Unless, of course, you have some evidence that has evaded the rest of mankind and the scientific community…

edited for typos. More remain I am sure, I’m only human ;)

It's not a fact though. There is evidence so support a young earth. This guy is a university professor and a creationist:
andymcintosh.org/

I don't share all their views, but I do agree with their young earth creationist perspective. That was the first site that came up when I searched, but there are many scientists who believe in creation .
I am pro-life mainly but I definitely don't agree with them about the 10 year old rape victim, or the bit about not having gay friends.