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Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

707 replies

ZoggyStirdust · 23/04/2025 16:00

Continues from here if anyone wants to

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318577-to-not-understand-why-christians-think-jesus-died-for-our-sins?page=40&reply=143772264

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13
CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:46

KrisAkabusi · 24/04/2025 17:06

Why did all the marsupials head to Australia afterwards? Why did none of them walk as far as say, India, and decide this is far enough? Why are none of them mentioned in the Bible in the first place?

The Bible doesn't list every single animal that exists, why would it? Presumably the animals migrated to the climates they were best suited to, or God told them where to go, just as he sent them all the the ark in the first place.

KrisAkabusi · 24/04/2025 17:46

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:36

Creationists don't deny that evolution happens within species, but one species does not evolve into another. None of the bacteria that have been observed to evolve have evolved into different types of organism.

Yes they have. You saying they haven't doesn't make it true. They don't look like the original cells. They metabolise different food sources, their genes have changed. By every possible standard they are different species. And there are multiple different versions now. People like you will tie yourselves up in knots to try to deny the evidence that disproves your beliefs.

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:45

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/04/2025 17:08

Well lets see. Did life on earth evolve over billions of years, and continue to evolve? Is there geological, archeological and phsycal evidence of how amoeba, invertebrae, insects, birds, animals and mankind have evolved and developed. Why yes, there is.

Or, did they suddenly appear from nowhere 5 billion years after the planet was formed, fully developed. Shortly after that, were they all wiped out a bar a boatful of animals (conveniently in pairs) and life on earth was rebooted becuase god was upset. Any evidence of that... Why no, there isn't...

But where did the first ever cells come from? Life doesn't spontaneously appear from nothing. An explosion does not create order and life. And how did nothing exploded, anyway?

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:43

RedWhite · 24/04/2025 17:09

I haven’t observed it in real time as no one has, but I believe what the scientists say.

Edited

How can the scientists be sure if it hasn't been observed? I believe what God says, as he was there at the start of the world. Science backs up what the Bible tells us. I don't believe blindly, I looked into the evidence.

Puzzled4 · 24/04/2025 17:42

KeepHopeful · 24/04/2025 16:28

God is Love, and that's why He made us and the world we live in. Our loving Him is for our common benefit, not to meet a personal need of God.

Try this article:

biblehub.com/q/why_does_god_need_worship.htm

What has been the benefit to humanity by loving this god?

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:41

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/04/2025 17:40

Can you explain how that link is supposed to help please? It is not and does not pretend to be scientifcally accurate.

It explains how the fossil records supports the view that there was a world wide flood? It frequently says that it is saying what scientists have said, it is science.

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:40

KrisAkabusi · 24/04/2025 17:15

EVERYTHING is an intermediate stage of evolution because evolution hasn't stopped. It's a continuous process. And lets take your cats as an example. Look at how many breeds of cat there are now. Look at how different a Maine coon is from a bengal. That's just in a couple of hundred years of targeted breeding. Is it impossible to think that with a little more time that they will differ so much that they will be unable to breed? Take a chihuahua and a St. Bernard. They could not possibly reproduce naturally now. In a sense they are different species now. All evolution needs is time.

I have no issues with different breeds of cats. As I have said many times, I do not doubt that evolution happens within species. However there is no evidence of a cat evolving into anything other than a cat.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/04/2025 17:40

Can you explain how that link is supposed to help please? It is not and does not pretend to be scientifcally accurate.

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:38

anytipswelcome · 24/04/2025 17:15

You believe he does answer some prayers, don’t you?

So if he is capable of doing so then why does he answer some but not those of thousands of religious children every year who pray to god (who they wholeheartedly believe in) to stop the sexual abuse they are being subjected to?

Why does allowing the free will of the person raping the child take priority over the prayers of the child, if god is omnipotent and does answer some prayers?

It’s a genuine questions as nobody has actually answered this on here I don’t think.

Honestly, I can't answer that one. Why did God let my Mum die of cancer when she was only 55? Why am I permanently disabled and in a wheelchair after an accident I barely survived? Why is my child deaf? Bad things happen to Christians too, because we live in a fallen world. This world is temporary though, and I have an eternity of being with God, with my Mum, with me being able to walk and run and jump to look forward to.

BunnyLake · 24/04/2025 17:36

anytipswelcome · 24/04/2025 17:15

You believe he does answer some prayers, don’t you?

So if he is capable of doing so then why does he answer some but not those of thousands of religious children every year who pray to god (who they wholeheartedly believe in) to stop the sexual abuse they are being subjected to?

Why does allowing the free will of the person raping the child take priority over the prayers of the child, if god is omnipotent and does answer some prayers?

It’s a genuine questions as nobody has actually answered this on here I don’t think.

Believers can’t answer it without sounding like a psycho enabler.

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:36

KrisAkabusi · 24/04/2025 17:16

Some species of bacteria have been unequivocally observed to have evolved over a period of a few years, because they have a very short generation time. Creationists say that this doesn't count though 🙄

Creationists don't deny that evolution happens within species, but one species does not evolve into another. None of the bacteria that have been observed to evolve have evolved into different types of organism.

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:34

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/04/2025 17:19

Ah, so fossils can be used as a fact to support the belief that there was a flood a couple of thousand years ago (even though fossils take around 10,000 years to form and it is impossible for a flood to have covered the whole world and then subsided in 40 days). But can't be used to support evolution... Okay... that stacks up ;)

Analysis shows that an ark that big could house the number of animals required (around 6,000) but does not show that the people of that time had the capability of building such a vessel. It also fails to take into account the 40 days (and nights...) of food and water required for all those animals. Or indeed the waste generated and how just two people would deal with it all. But, why let facts get in the way of a good story

https://apologeticspress.org/the-flood-explains-the-fossil-record-5751/

BunnyLake · 24/04/2025 17:34

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/04/2025 17:19

Ah, so fossils can be used as a fact to support the belief that there was a flood a couple of thousand years ago (even though fossils take around 10,000 years to form and it is impossible for a flood to have covered the whole world and then subsided in 40 days). But can't be used to support evolution... Okay... that stacks up ;)

Analysis shows that an ark that big could house the number of animals required (around 6,000) but does not show that the people of that time had the capability of building such a vessel. It also fails to take into account the 40 days (and nights...) of food and water required for all those animals. Or indeed the waste generated and how just two people would deal with it all. But, why let facts get in the way of a good story

Or how you keep the animals safe from each other. Or how animals from around the globe got to the ark.

BunnyLake · 24/04/2025 17:32

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 16:59

God can do impossible things. If he couldn't, he wouldn't be God.

Yet he can’t (won’t?) help a neglected child? 🤨

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/04/2025 17:19

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 16:47

Actually Noah's ark isn't far fetched. The fossil records support the idea of a global flood. Some people in America built a life size replica of the ark, using the measurements given in the Bible, and showed that it could house all those animals.

Ah, so fossils can be used as a fact to support the belief that there was a flood a couple of thousand years ago (even though fossils take around 10,000 years to form and it is impossible for a flood to have covered the whole world and then subsided in 40 days). But can't be used to support evolution... Okay... that stacks up ;)

Analysis shows that an ark that big could house the number of animals required (around 6,000) but does not show that the people of that time had the capability of building such a vessel. It also fails to take into account the 40 days (and nights...) of food and water required for all those animals. Or indeed the waste generated and how just two people would deal with it all. But, why let facts get in the way of a good story

KrisAkabusi · 24/04/2025 17:16

RedWhite · 24/04/2025 17:09

I haven’t observed it in real time as no one has, but I believe what the scientists say.

Edited

Some species of bacteria have been unequivocally observed to have evolved over a period of a few years, because they have a very short generation time. Creationists say that this doesn't count though 🙄

anytipswelcome · 24/04/2025 17:15

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 16:35

If God intervened to stop every bad thing he would have destroyed the world long ago. He is patient with us because he longs for people to turn and repent and not face eternal punishment.

You believe he does answer some prayers, don’t you?

So if he is capable of doing so then why does he answer some but not those of thousands of religious children every year who pray to god (who they wholeheartedly believe in) to stop the sexual abuse they are being subjected to?

Why does allowing the free will of the person raping the child take priority over the prayers of the child, if god is omnipotent and does answer some prayers?

It’s a genuine questions as nobody has actually answered this on here I don’t think.

KrisAkabusi · 24/04/2025 17:15

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:04

How do you know it's taken thousands of years if it can't be observed or reproduced? Where are all the intermediate stages of evolution? Carvings from ancient Egypt are thousands of years old and cats and scarab beetles don't appear to have evolved in that time.

EVERYTHING is an intermediate stage of evolution because evolution hasn't stopped. It's a continuous process. And lets take your cats as an example. Look at how many breeds of cat there are now. Look at how different a Maine coon is from a bengal. That's just in a couple of hundred years of targeted breeding. Is it impossible to think that with a little more time that they will differ so much that they will be unable to breed? Take a chihuahua and a St. Bernard. They could not possibly reproduce naturally now. In a sense they are different species now. All evolution needs is time.

RedWhite · 24/04/2025 17:09

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:04

How do you know it's taken thousands of years if it can't be observed or reproduced? Where are all the intermediate stages of evolution? Carvings from ancient Egypt are thousands of years old and cats and scarab beetles don't appear to have evolved in that time.

I haven’t observed it in real time as no one has, but I believe what the scientists say.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/04/2025 17:08

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:00

Where did this first woman and man come from though? Is it really more far fetched to say that God made them than to say that nothing exploded and people came from grown up pond slime?

Well lets see. Did life on earth evolve over billions of years, and continue to evolve? Is there geological, archeological and phsycal evidence of how amoeba, invertebrae, insects, birds, animals and mankind have evolved and developed. Why yes, there is.

Or, did they suddenly appear from nowhere 5 billion years after the planet was formed, fully developed. Shortly after that, were they all wiped out a bar a boatful of animals (conveniently in pairs) and life on earth was rebooted becuase god was upset. Any evidence of that... Why no, there isn't...

KrisAkabusi · 24/04/2025 17:06

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 16:47

Actually Noah's ark isn't far fetched. The fossil records support the idea of a global flood. Some people in America built a life size replica of the ark, using the measurements given in the Bible, and showed that it could house all those animals.

Why did all the marsupials head to Australia afterwards? Why did none of them walk as far as say, India, and decide this is far enough? Why are none of them mentioned in the Bible in the first place?

RedWhite · 24/04/2025 17:04

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 16:59

God can do impossible things. If he couldn't, he wouldn't be God.

It would seem he can do impossible things in the eye of some but for someone who isn’t religious, these concepts are very unrealistic.

You really need to have faith to hold such beliefs and that’s fine in general, but when they conflate with reality of the here and now and what we know of the world and how it works, people will understandably query it

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 17:04

RedWhite · 24/04/2025 16:53

It take thousands of years, which is the most significant reason the earth isn’t only few thousand years old.

What about the dinosaurs? Are the scientists wrong in stating they lived millions of years ago?

Edited

How do you know it's taken thousands of years if it can't be observed or reproduced? Where are all the intermediate stages of evolution? Carvings from ancient Egypt are thousands of years old and cats and scarab beetles don't appear to have evolved in that time.

Parker231 · 24/04/2025 17:04

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 24/04/2025 16:51

If you have no certainty, how can be sure that there isn't a day of judgement?

Because the way the day of judgement is being described, it’s impossible. But as a nonbeliever it’s irrelevant to me as it can’t apply

ZoggyStirdust · 24/04/2025 17:03

driedgrasses · 24/04/2025 16:16

I think it's a shame that these threads inevitably descend into arrogant name calling and unkindness from the atheists. Nobody owes anyone a kindness, but you have to wonder why people think it's okay to take the piss. You have to wonder where it even comes from. Is it necessary? Why does this behavioural pattern occur?

It would be good to stay civil but when one party says “look at the facts” and the other says “I do not agree with facts” it gets hard to take them seriously. That’s why talking to fundamentalists can be frustrating.

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