Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

Would healing pain, disease or injury count in your view?

My understanding is that people accepted in Heaven are given new bodies which are replicas of their old ones but without sickness, injury or damage. I don't think they are otherwise improved in an artificial sort of way.

Man/humankind was intended to live by feeling, giving and receiving love. People wanting to achieve that can only do so completely with Jesus's help. Everybody is invited. Nobody who doesn't want that is forced into it.

(My impression, not a precise interpretation of the Bible).

@BunnyLake

While I do believe the Christian God exists, as a polytheist, I see him as one of many, and I have no interest in engaging with or worshipping him. Other deities have grabbed my interest.

This is one of the things that I find agreeable about pagan polytheism. First it's the theistic inclusivity (while there may be particular deities/pantheons that we attach ourselves to, polytheism sees no limit to the number of gods/goddesses, so we don't deny the existence of others, the way monotheists do.)

Secondly, there is no demand or order to worship the gods in pagan polytheism. People can believe they exist, but choose not to worship, honour or engage with any at all. Engaging and venerating the deities is - almost always - a personal choice, rather than a requirement. (I say almost always, because there have been accounts from some contemporary pagan polytheists of a deities making themselves present to them and pretty much insisting on some kind of engagement, but those circumstances are very few and far between.)

If pagan polytheism, there is also no punishment for those who either ignore or do not believe in the deities.

@KeepHopeful

I find it quite offensive that someone would think my scars need to be removed for me to be an ‘improved’ version of myself.

I would hope a kind and loving god wouldn’t be so focused on looks.

Surely he would just create a heaven where looks don’t matter as nobody is judgmental, rather than ‘improving’ people’s looks.

Why would he need to do that in your opinion? What would the motivation or benefit be in a heaven full of good people, free of judgment and ‘sin’?

Destined to be judged for eternity… It is like mumsnet 🤣

Seems heaven even has its beauty standards.

Love how the goalposts change in religion.😆

A lot of people don’t have a problem with their scars and blemishes. These things are often symbolic of things that they have experienced and had to over come. Also, why is being seen to be young the perceived best version of our selves? I am middle aged now, with many, many flaws, but I am still a much better version of myself at this age. It would be maddening to remain in this youthful state, in perpetuity. Is there any further kind of soul and spirit evolution?

About 80% of the deceased are cremated in the UK nowadays, so at least heaven shouldn’t be too crowded :)

Tbf, recent Catholic teaching from the Vatican has said cremation is an option, purely due to lack of space in cemeteries!

All my deceased catholic family members were cremated, even the most religious one.

Catholics don't agree with cremation as they believe you need your physical body. Protestants believe it's only your soul, so cremation is fine.

But what if we’ve been cremated?

I don’t really want to look like myself if I’ve got to have it for eternity. I want to look like my idea of perfection and it’s not me. Even when younger, slimmer and prettier that isn’t good enough for me for eternity.

Sorry! I was catching up and saw your question :)

And it’s not that I don’t find the theological answer ‘acceptable’ as such, I am not so uneducated that I don’t understand the concept of ‘we just don’t know’.

I am interested in how an individual can simultaneously confidently say god is omnipotent, is capable of answering prayers, is kind and loving AND refuses to answer the prayers specifically of a child victim of rape desperately begging him for help.

There’s a logical fallacy and cognitive dissonance required that to me falls outside of ‘just’ faith as it requires such a huge leap.

He can, but he doesn’t want to. I could not describe such an entity as kind and loving so I’m interested in how people who do justify it individually.

I find it fascinating, especially as someone who grew up in the church but never believed for reasons like that.

I know you answered me previously, I was asking that poster their personal thoughts on it.

I can’t think of any examples where god has done things in people’s best interest.

No wonder people don’t believe he exists

This has a simple answer - the early Church Fathers didn't want to include them. There are many reasons why; the Gospel of Thomas isn't a narrative, like the 4 Gospels included in the canon. It's just a list of things Jesus said and they thought people would find it boring!

The Gospel of Mary Magdalene has never been found completed, so they didn't want to include it as they didn't have all the pieces.

The 4 Gospels mostly back each other up, or fill in gaps for each other. The ones that were missed out were outliers/anomalies, so were missed out.

The Biblical Canon was created by humans, who are fallible - it's highly possible (and likely) that there are mistakes.

I have answered this question, multiple times! But as I have said before, atheists don't find the answer acceptable - we cannot understand the decisions that God makes.

To us, they may seem arbitrary or even cruel, as in your example. Our place as humans isn't to try and understand why God makes these decisions, simply to believe that he has our best interests at heart even if we don't fully understand it at the time.

I'm not saying its the right or wrong way to think, but it's the theologically accepted answer for billions of religious believers the world over.

I’m sure other religions would say their god is the only real god.

But what has “he” done?

Yes it applies to me like everyone else. I believe Jesus when He says

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me".

I have seen and heard enough to know that God is the one real God. No other supernatural being could do what He does.

Most of my church experience is free church, so I have known vicars but not that well. I hope they know when to stop. 😁

At our best. Recognisable as ourselves but without blemishes like scars or skin conditions. Without disease. I would guess we'll look like an improved version of ourselves as young adults, but that's only a guess.

https://www.gotquestions.org/look-like-in-Heaven.html

I think that I said that. It is certainly what I believe.