Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

So our choice is fan club member or hell? Anyway, while you’re here did you see my post asking you if you would still carry on as you are with your faith and bible study etc if god told you personally that you’ve not been selected for heaven (or hell). You’ll just be dust. How would the intensity of your relationship with god be after hearing that?

So you believe in demons? Not a JW by any chance are you? Or something of that ilk?

As for the witch hunts being driven by forces of evil I would love you to expand on that, because everything was done in the name of Jesus by fervent, Bible thumping believers. Or don't you want to talk about that because it disrupts the loving God narrative?

If that is somebody's choice then God, with sadness, honours it. It's always a choice for people capable of informed decision.

And I knew someone who, talking to Christians in the street, said she was going to Hell. She died of a sudden massive heart attack soon after.

I'm sorry if trying to explain my or others' interpretation of the Bible comes over as smugness or elitist. Not intended at all. Christianity is about humility, but with conviction of God's truth and love.

Salvation is offered to everyone who believes, including people of other faiths or belief systems who convert. Is that exclusionary?

I'm not on here to discuss witch hunts except to say they were driven by the forces of evil, not by God. Jesus tells us to drive out demons. He didn't say persecute people who you think may be possessed by them.

So you would be sent to the burning fires of hell for eternity because you don’t want to join god’s fan club?

Religion is about faith, yes, otherwise it is not a religion.

We cannot serve two masters. If there were more than one actual god then which one made us and should be followed? We were not created by rival gods or by a committee. There can only be one God.

God gave us life. Freely. For a limited period. This earthly life is a sample and a leaning opportunity for the real deal, everlasting life with God who loves us and with people who love God and His people, including you and me. If somebody doesn't want to go beyond that, nobody forces them.

People are invited into Heaven if they accept and show willingness to fit in there. Of course there are rules. What community doesn't have rules so that people can get along with one another?

Ah, the rather elitist point of view that "we know something you don't know" and are infinitely superior because of it. Rather smug don't you think? And exclusionary. And why dogma/ religion/ the Bible are the perfect man-made tools of subjugation and torture. (See the Inquisition and Witch trials as two examples - also not exclusive to Christianity, but mirrored by other faiths for time immemorial.)

Do you ever have moments when you think it all sounds rather far-fetched? Do you feel you have to be on top of it every day, working out whether your faith is sincere or just a means to get into heaven (I mean possibly subconsciously it’s a means). If there wasn’t heaven at the end if it all for you would you still put as much time and effort into it? Would you still study the bible and follow god/Jesus so loyally if god told you that you were not selected to go to heaven and nothing you did would change that.

Gosh, so it most definitely is the case of “submit or else”. I don’t understand how a god who behaves like this gives any one hope and comfort. This is not love, this is intimidation through fear.

I think the Bible covers all that. God and His rules are entirely fair. Love and justice run through the whole Bible. People who don't see the logic have not yet understood what the Bible says. It works as a whole. Some people doubt its truth because they try to find meaning selectively or incompletely.

The problem @KeepHopeful is that your reasoning is circular. You believe the Bible is the truth and the answer to everything, therefore if it isn't in the Bible, it isn't true and you don't want to know.

You have taken the leap.of faith needed for that to work and in doing so you have abjured part of your free will and independent thought. You are entitled to do that, but it doesn't mean your beliefs are the truth and your version of faith is the only correct one.

A God who demands recognition as the one and only is absolutely conditional and transactional in nature.

The Bible says we are saved by faith alone by God's grace. A person who lives a life of loving and giving to others is almost there - but if their pride makes them rely on their good works instead of humbly accepting that nothing they can do will earn a place in Heaven - it's a gift from God - then they know the rules, choose to disobey and miss out. It's tragic and difficult to come to terms with that, but it's their choice.

The sinner who repents, submits to God and accepts Jesus as Lord and Saviour - yes, he goes to heaven.

It's about faith and trusting and accepting Jesus. We can't buy a place by our efforts. Its value is more then anybody pay.

That isn’t necessarily what stops you from worrying or being anxious or being upset.

If some of us were sent to a paradise island with our family and friends and didn't have to worry about money or safety it still doesn’t wipe those fundamental emotions away. Even if we took sickness out of the equation what emotions will be experiencing for eternity (other than love for god).

Oh ok. So when you said that all you have to do is believe in Jesus, you actually meant spend a lot of time studying etc in the hope that at some point it will come true.

Still, I suppose that's easier than doing the things that Jesus said his followers should do like giving away all your possessions to the poor.

& are the ‘degrees of bad’ accounted for?

Will you not feel terribly sad if you are in heaven but those you love dearly eg non believing children are damned to hell?

But doesn’t that sound just a little bit boring and repetitive? As have posted before, like how the novelty of an all-you-can-eat buffet soon wears off. It’s sounds appealing to a child, but as you get older you realise that buffets are not all they are cracked up to be. There’s a lot more pleasure to be had in a decent restaurant. Quality over quantity every time for me. I’m happy with 80 or 90 years of a varied and interesting life; an eternity of anything sounds awful.

Why not do ‘version 2’ for a more sophisticated people & clear up some of the quite understandable confusion?

If you study what God says in His Bible, talk to Him and listen, go to a Bible-believing church, you will believe things, one at a time at your own pace.

What happens to that really good decent human being, who all his life has helped others, helped his friends and family, the community, and was just a really nice person. But he refuses to accept god through Christ. What happens to him when he dies? Does he go to hell for not believing?

What happens to the man who was horrible his entire life, a serial killer, but in his older years turns yo Jesus and asks for forgiveness, and wants to submit to your god. What happens to his man when he dies? Does he go to heaven?

So that's how they get round protecting paedophile priests.... got it.

You can be forgiven of any sin except not recognising and believing in Jesus.

And your proof/ guarantee/ demonstration of that is what exactly?

It will be different there. Without worrying about money, buying or renting a home, having enough to eat and wear, people threatening, stealing, or slandering you, what is going to upset you?

You'd still be you, but you'd have learnt enough to fit in with Heaven's lifestyle.