Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

707 replies

ZoggyStirdust · 23/04/2025 16:00

Continues from here if anyone wants to

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318577-to-not-understand-why-christians-think-jesus-died-for-our-sins?page=40&reply=143772264

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Thread gallery
13
Brahumbug · 02/05/2025 21:21

QuaintShaker · 02/05/2025 21:06

It's not even that, it's simply the absence of belief in a deity. We're all born atheist.

Show quote history

We are indeed born atheist. Atheism is definitely not a belief.😊

QuaintShaker · 02/05/2025 21:06

Brahumbug · 02/05/2025 21:00

Atheism is not in anyway a belief or world view. It is the position of not being convinced of the existence of a god due to lack of sufficient evidence.

It's not even that, it's simply the absence of belief in a deity. We're all born atheist.

Brahumbug · 02/05/2025 21:00

Atheism is not in anyway a belief or world view. It is the position of not being convinced of the existence of a god due to lack of sufficient evidence.

KeepHopeful · 30/04/2025 19:28

anytipswelcome · 30/04/2025 15:57

I never got an answer even though I asked in good faith. Oh well.

Show quote history

Sorry, I will answer! 😔

anytipswelcome · 30/04/2025 15:57

anytipswelcome · 28/04/2025 22:03

Thanks. I really am interested, not being goady, so I appreciate it.

Show quote history

I never got an answer even though I asked in good faith. Oh well.

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 29/04/2025 14:40

Parker231 · 29/04/2025 12:43

Incredibly rare and from all accounts, Jesus was definitely dead.

Show quote history

My issue is that accounts themselves are inevitably unreliable.
The earliest record of Jesus's resurrection is Mark 16:1-8. Even this was recorded some years after the supposed events. It is very light on detail.
All that the later accounts are doing, including the later additions to Mark (16:9 onwards), is to add merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.

BunnyLake · 29/04/2025 13:44

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 07:28

Someone completely healed of stage 4 cancer. This was many years ago.

Show quote history

If you witnessed it what took place?

Parker231 · 29/04/2025 12:43

Tryingtokeepgoing · 29/04/2025 12:42

People have and do survive the death penalty though. If it happens with modern methods, and those from a few hundred years ago, it seems likely it was also possible with more primative methods...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/28/lethal-injection-surviving-execution-attempt-alabama

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Babbacombe_Lee#:~:text=John%20Henry%20George%20%22Babbacombe%22%20Lee,and%20was%20a%20known%20thief.

Incredibly rare and from all accounts, Jesus was definitely dead.

Parker231 · 29/04/2025 12:37

Tryingtokeepgoing · 29/04/2025 12:03

40 years ago the chances of a misdiagnosis were even higher than they are today... Just to thow that out there.

But, circling back to the thread title, did Jesus die and was resurrected, or did he just pass out / end up in a coma and then come round? Given the level of medical knowledge at the time, that's a possibility sure;y? Though the Egyptians who preceeded christianity by 2 or 3 thousand years were pretty advanced on the medicine front, so perhaps they would have known!

Show quote history

He was sentenced to the death penalty for breaking laws of that time. No different from prisoners on death row in the US. He didn’t survive the death penalty - no one does.

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 12:30

Tryingtokeepgoing · 29/04/2025 12:03

40 years ago the chances of a misdiagnosis were even higher than they are today... Just to thow that out there.

But, circling back to the thread title, did Jesus die and was resurrected, or did he just pass out / end up in a coma and then come round? Given the level of medical knowledge at the time, that's a possibility sure;y? Though the Egyptians who preceeded christianity by 2 or 3 thousand years were pretty advanced on the medicine front, so perhaps they would have known!

Show quote history

If you realised just what Jesus went through pre-Crucifixion, let along the actual Crucifixion itself, I doubt you'd think he just 'passed out'. I am actually surprised he survived what happened before it, to be honest.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 29/04/2025 12:03

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 11:08

Honestly can't recall, this was over 40 years ago, just vaguely recall it was an internal cancer of some sort.

Show quote history

40 years ago the chances of a misdiagnosis were even higher than they are today... Just to thow that out there.

But, circling back to the thread title, did Jesus die and was resurrected, or did he just pass out / end up in a coma and then come round? Given the level of medical knowledge at the time, that's a possibility sure;y? Though the Egyptians who preceeded christianity by 2 or 3 thousand years were pretty advanced on the medicine front, so perhaps they would have known!

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 11:08

Parker231 · 29/04/2025 09:17

What part of the body, what treatment were they having?

Show quote history

Honestly can't recall, this was over 40 years ago, just vaguely recall it was an internal cancer of some sort.

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 11:07

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 29/04/2025 09:10

So you believe God actively healed someone of stage 4 cancer but doesn't heal literally millions of others?
Why?
What made that person so much better than the millions whom God didn't cure?

Show quote history

Yes I believe he was healed. Well that's the question isn't it, why? It's totally up to God's divine providence. It doesn't mean that person was better (although interestingly he went on to become a vicar in the CoE), not at all.

Parker231 · 29/04/2025 09:58

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 29/04/2025 09:23

I would strongly suggest you listen to Tim Minchin"s song 'Thank You God'.

Song starts at about 5.25 minutes. It"s very disrespectful - but asks some very reasonable questions (and is very funny)
Show quote history

When asked if he thought the universe is full of life, Minchin summarised: "The chances of this happening might be one in infinity. Put it this way: the chance that there being intelligent alien life are, for me, infinitely higher than the chance there being a creator god."

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 29/04/2025 09:23

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 07:28

Someone completely healed of stage 4 cancer. This was many years ago.

Show quote history

I would strongly suggest you listen to Tim Minchin"s song 'Thank You God'.

Song starts at about 5.25 minutes. It"s very disrespectful - but asks some very reasonable questions (and is very funny)

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/IZeWPScnolo?si=-T3oLjP-O1C_9jO1

Parker231 · 29/04/2025 09:17

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 07:28

Someone completely healed of stage 4 cancer. This was many years ago.

Show quote history

What part of the body, what treatment were they having?

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 29/04/2025 09:10

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 07:28

Someone completely healed of stage 4 cancer. This was many years ago.

Show quote history

So you believe God actively healed someone of stage 4 cancer but doesn't heal literally millions of others?
Why?
What made that person so much better than the millions whom God didn't cure?

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 07:28

Parker231 · 29/04/2025 07:11

What have you witnessed?

Show quote history

Someone completely healed of stage 4 cancer. This was many years ago.

Parker231 · 29/04/2025 07:11

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 06:46

Yes I too have known of people genuinely healed but there is a LOT of fakery around these days.

Show quote history

What have you witnessed?

AlteredStater · 29/04/2025 06:46

KeepHopeful · 28/04/2025 21:29

No, just as you weren't. But unlike you, I'd guess, I have actually seen some Christian healing ministry and I have some knowledge of some people who do it and people who have received it.

Show quote history

Yes I too have known of people genuinely healed but there is a LOT of fakery around these days.

anytipswelcome · 28/04/2025 22:03

KeepHopeful · 28/04/2025 20:56

Working on it! It's complicated.

Show quote history

Thanks. I really am interested, not being goady, so I appreciate it.

Parker231 · 28/04/2025 21:48

KeepHopeful · 28/04/2025 21:29

No, just as you weren't. But unlike you, I'd guess, I have actually seen some Christian healing ministry and I have some knowledge of some people who do it and people who have received it.

Show quote history

What healing have you actually witnessed?

KeepHopeful · 28/04/2025 21:29

Parker231 · 28/04/2025 21:01

Were you?

Show quote history

No, just as you weren't. But unlike you, I'd guess, I have actually seen some Christian healing ministry and I have some knowledge of some people who do it and people who have received it.

Parker231 · 28/04/2025 21:01

KeepHopeful · 28/04/2025 20:44

You were present on every occasion presumably?

Show quote history

Were you?