AIBU to ask what you think should happen with Trans men?

If I don’t wax my moustache I look like Tom Selleck.
I suspect you're exaggerating but that's really made me laugh.

Yes Men are the problem, so we implement safeguards.

We CRB check for certain job roles and we provide sex segregated spaces and services. Those sex segregated spaces exclude all men, even the ones who wear pretty skirts, give themselves a feminine name or say that they are women, because we cannot know if the man under the skirt/behind the name is a good man or a bad man, we just know that statistically he is more likely to harm a woman than a woman is, and that physically if he chose to do it he is more likely to cause serious damage.

Beyond the safety aspects, there are also privacy, dignity and religious considerations.

i am not at all religious, i am however modest, i dislike getting undressed infront of women who are not part of my immediate family and i have never been undressed in front of any man except my husband. That is my choice to make, no man gets to wander into the gym changing room and take that decision away from me. I’ve already had to cancel my Nuffield membership and move to another gym because the female changing room has no cubicles and allows self ID, I now use the council facility which has 1 cubicle in the Women’s changing room and a large open plan space, if the cubicle is busy I have to wait because they also allow self ID so I cannot guarantee that the other ‘Women’ using the changing room will actually be Women. I have to be very watchful because unfortunately the cubicle has a gap at the top and bottom and they’ve had reports in the wet-side changing village for the attached pool which is unisex of men putting phones under the doors. It means that 90% of the time I choose to make my day more inconvenient by going home after the gym and getting showered and changed there then going back out rather than being able to build it into my trip. For the 10% where I have to use the changing room I’m on alert constantly.

Not sure what that has to do with what I said.

I'm not talking about the specifics of medical care, or toilets, or anything- I was simply challenging the people on all the trans threads who say "they can always tell". I am saying, it is impossible to know that.

But no one is questioning their existence.

I mean, large numbers of them behaved so appalingly over the weekend that we can't fail to notice their existence.

Personally, I suspect you can't always tell a TM. But I've always been very aware when I've clocked a TW in my presence.

Hpwever, let's just imagine that I have washed my hands next to a woman at the sink who has actually been an extremely well passing TW, it doesn't matter. I haven't been aware so they clearly havent behaved in a way which would cause concern.

The problems arose because absolutely any male could.get into any women's spaces simply by saying he was a woman and then do what the hell he liked. And brag about it. And behave threateningly towards any woman/person who questioned him.

And all the rhetoric around, "Well if someome is behaving badly, there are already laws to address that. Just use those," was unhelpful. Unfortunately a) by then it was too late for the victim and b) organisations were still asking the women to leave if they were uncomfortable with a man's behaviour. Those laws weren't being applied when the perpetrator was a TW because no one really knew what to do, whose 'rights' to prioritse and they all knew how aggressive violent, unlawfully could be. So it was easier to remove the women.

The ruling has simply clarified the law and now prioritises women in wen's spaces rather than men.

We can tell.
You know there are men who dress as women who do actually respect our spaces?. They have also been vilified by the TRA’s!

There is no statistical evidence to support any risk to any woman in spaces like changing rooms and toilets, from trans women, men pretending to be trans women

Of course there is statistical evidence. Every woman that is attacked by a trans woman or men pretending to be a trans woman is a statistic.

How do you know think statistics are formed?

I can only conclude that it's because some men who identify as trans women REALLY want to go into women's toilets.

And this is what they are trying to do to undermine the Supreme Court decision.

The problem is that we've seen these tactics before. They won't work.

If the trans men (biological females) in this photo walked in and out of a female loo, in silence with their shirts on, I probably wouldn't. If they walked into a communal changing room and got changed in full view, however, recognition would be much more likely due to their chest scarring.
Personally, I don't think you can always tell based on appearance alone (although I'm surprised how often my suspicions have been correct when I've seen trans people on TV) - unfortunately, the voice is almost always the major giveaway.

I agree.

All coming out arguing that women shouldn't have privacy and dignity provided by the Equality Act contrary to the Ruling of the Highest Court of the Land.

You couldn't make it up.

Despite what some posters are suggesting women and girls have been harmed by men who identify as trans women in women's single sex toilets. 2 girls were sexually assaulted by Katie Dolotowski in a Morrisons toilet. Cameras have been hidden and trans women have filmed themselves masturbating whilst sitting in a cubicle next to women peeing and posted it on social media.

There are a subset of men who identify as trans women who are autogynophile which means being seen and validated as a woman is a fetish. For them being in women's toilets uses women as their fetish.

So that's why toilets are so important and that is why 100s of posts are coming on here defending the rights of males to be where the Supreme Court has determined they shouldn't be.

I wonder how many men will stop identifying as trans when they can no longer get a kick out of it? Perhaps that's what they mean by trans erasure.

Why 'sigh'?

we trust in medical carers not to lie about their sex. are you suggesting that trans identified carers will lie about their sex to vulnerable patients?

Wish people would knock it off with the cis crap.

Is this about toilets again? Why is it always about toilets?

a woman trespassing in a men-only space is primarily a creep, but not a threat. a man trespassing in a women-only space is a creep, but primarily a threat.

What's the difference? Be specific?

I definitely can't always tell
But now I can ask for same sex intimate care, yes?

Those who are so sure they can "always tell", unless you've personally checked the genitals of every person you've ever met against your assumption, how on earth do you know?

Trans people have existed for centuries, and have been moving through society mostly unnoticed for the majority of that time.

This isn't really an AIBU so I haven't voted because of course it isn't unreasonable for you to ask a question.
Just to correct something in your post though: "... there has been lots of discussion about trans women and the impact that the ruling has on their rights to access female only spaces." Trans women (biological males) have never had the right to access female only spaces and the Supreme Court ruling simply clarifies this.
Now to answer your question. Following the SC judgment, I would expect that TRAs would lobby for single-gender spaces for trans men and trans women, separate and distinct from male and female single-sex spaces (public loos, changing rooms, etc). In fact, it's a pity they haven't been doing this already given it will likely take years to achieve (the length of time it's taken for organisations to reliably provide specific facilities for disabled people's needs is an example of this).
Given that 87-96% of transsexuals do not undergo radical GA surgery (i.e. including genitalia), I would have thought the chance of encountering a trans man (biological female) in a female WC with their surgically constructed penis out would be vanishingly rare (particularly given that female loos have cubicles).
It's unfortunate that transsexuals feel "forced" to use the facilities that align with their sex, however, until trans men and trans women have their own facilities, this is the reality they need to deal with (as do we all).
Finally, I don't believe the SC ruling will lead to unisex/gender-neutral facilities as this separation has been culturally embedded in UK society for eons. In fact, the only "shared" facilities I've experienced is, for example, a single loo in a cafe where both sexes use the same loo but, crucially, not at the same time.

Apologies not read the whole thread so someone may have said this already.

if someone is a trans man like you’re describing, ie a woman, but they ‘pass’ as a man, presumably they also ‘believe’ they are a man, then they will insist on continuing to use the men’s toilets as they have been doing. Incorrectly maybe but that’s what’s been happening. If they have gone through surgery and take meds/hormones I would assume they feel pretty strongly about being a man.
So they will continue to use men’s facilities and whatever risk they face from men is on them. I don’t believe they will all of a sudden switch to using the women’s where, admittedly, they may get questioned or looked at twice (I’ve only known trans men who still look like women so I haven’t seen, or noticed I accept, the ones that pass).
But the key still applies; women’s spaces are just for women, however they present.
if men are unhappy with women coming into their spaces, well it’s on them to campaign and protest, so far they haven’t.
Woman have worked to regain their own spaces, so we are entitled to them again, as we always should have been. Men out.

If you haven’t sent the peanut analogy yet, it’s worth googling. To be nut-free, means no nuts. Doesn’t matter how those nuts present, it’s still no nuts.

What do transmen think should 'happen with them'? Because I've not seen any of them speak. Every article and news item has featured transwomen. Does anyone know what transmen are saying about what toilets they will use, whether this will be a change in their behaviour, and if they see it as problematic for them?

Exactly. TRAs have been very succesful in making this about toilets.
But ask anyone if they are ok with their 80 year old mum being bathed by a transwoman? Resounding no.

Wasn’t there an identical thread last week?

So called trans men are women. They are welcome in
women’s spaces, as they are women.

They look and move like women and you can spot them a mile off, even those with facial hair or bulked up with testosterone.

Be more original with your scaremongering.

*women

That is because it is considerably easier for men who are utterly determined to transgress women's boundaries to shriek 'we just want to pee!!!' than admit that eroding the single sex exemptions in the EQA2010, as lobbying groups have made it their business to do, means that rape survivors were almost denied the right to request a female medical examiner (Forensic Medical Examiners Bill Scotland - six words amendment) or are told to 'reframe their trauma' as they are turned away from rape crisis services (ERCC) or female prisoners are locked up with violent male sex offenders on the basis of self id (Scottish Prison Service).

We're told that we're evil for making men who identify as women fearful and vulnerable through this judgement. They didn't give a shiny shit about the women in the situations above though.

The self ID fuckery meant that predators could act like a fox in a hen house. Can’t you see why things needed to change! Don’t wear blinkers ffs!

It’s not though. The level of risk and threat is fundamentally different.