To be shocked by a transwoman guest on Jeremy Vine today asking a female caller what sex she is - and whether she’s “been tested?”

Goodness, you do have a high opinion of yourself, don't you?

And some brass neck to be accusing anyone on the pro women side of the debate of being "ideological" given the nonsense we've had to put up with from Team Pronoun for the last decade or so.

'And now we have the body responsible for promoting equality and human rights interpreting equalities / anti discrimination law as saying that trans women must be excluded from women’s spaces and it’s also perfectly lawful to exclude them from the men’s but it’s all ok because they can go in the “other” space, for “other” (weird) people that aren’t lawfully allowed to be around anyone because their weirdness makes the normies too uncomfortable .'

The hyperbole in this post is remarkable.

A third space that can be used by who ever wishes to use it, is dismissed as othering.

Yet..... the entire premise of why a group of male people demand to be allowed access to the female single sex spaces is belief and only belief. There is no biological marker found and none expected to be found at this stage. The only thing that these male people all had in common was philosophical belief about themselves.

But apparently, society is expected to treat this group as if their belief, that is not reflective of material reality, is materially real. And anything less than total compliance is hate and anyone not complying is to be calling or implied to be a bigot.

What other group has a philosophical belief that doesn't reflect material reality yet can overwrite the sex based protections needed for female people in the UK? Can anyone think of any?

But society is villainous if it doesn't treat this group as per the group's philosophical belief that they are female and draws the line at allowing those male people into female single sex spaces. Apparently, society is the problem if a group of male people's false beliefs about themselves are not treated as being real.

What is really shining through though, is that it was never about safety. It was only about forcing others to accept male people as female people.

Thank you. I'm sorry if this sounds stupid but how do you tell what thoughts a biological man has in his head? I presume we're not going around asking biological men what thoughts they have in their heads?

This. If you've ever bled from your uterus or ejaculated sperm from your penis you don't really need to have your chromosomes tested, do you?

and it’s also perfectly lawful to exclude them from the men’s

The vast majority of men who identify as women don’t ‘pass’ at all so will not be refused entry to any men only services - if they are at all concerned they can just wear ‘men’s’ clothes and not get a second glance.

There may be a teeny tiny group that are affected by this so you don’t need to worry too much. I’m sure perfectly adequate provision will be found for them.

I'll have a go, since you've no takers.

A biological man is a threat to women and transwomen.

A biological man who identifies as not a man instantly becomes a member of a persecuted minority who is marginalised and vulnerable™ and no threat to anyone and in fact is the most threatened person of all.

The way you can tell the first from the second is by what thoughts each says he's got in his head.

HTH

That is crystal clear imo. Lots of nice clarity on who is allowed into which space and definitions of men and women.

I’m looking forward to their next instalment on sport.

Sadly for Lostcat sanity has been regained and public awareness is such that we are unlikely to lose it again. I think the focus should now be on drastically improving mental health education and speech both to stop more youngsters getting sucked into gender ideology and to treat the sad feelz of men getting used to women saying no to them.

They've quite literally presented a solution within the guidance, which is - fully enclosed cubicles that can be used by anyone. Once again, this isn't actually that difficult. You're just not getting what you want.

Forcing women into into intimate spaces with men was the absurdity.

Ultimately, trans rights activists and 'supporters' have done NOTHING for trans people here. Maybe start, instead of just endless moaning about women.

I personally don't want anyone to disappear. I'm very happy if it makes someone happy to wear what they like and call themselves what they like. Who cares?

But what none of us can do, is force others to believe in our religion, or to give up their own necessary rights so we can have extra privileges. None of us have the right to demand other people comply with our beliefs.

EHRC are saying what the supreme court said the law says. The judgement is online and free to read, and a lot of it is in very accessible language.

The judgement says transmen who actually pass as men can be excluded from women's single sex spaces if their presence could distress women who can't be in that space with men. Because those women will believe the transman is a man. No one called anyone weird or anything at all similar to that.

I think that the EHRC is being clear here in its interim guidance

In workplaces and services that are open to the public:

-trans women (biological men) should not be permitted to use the women’s facilities and trans men (biological women) should not be permitted to use the men’s facilities, as this will mean that they are no longer single-sex facilities and must be open to all users of the opposite sex.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Orlo

It really is remarkable to see people still declare that the EHRC is interpreting the EA incorrectly in light of the SC judgement.

I'm not asking about biological men preying on women. I'm asking how do we tell the difference between a biological man and a biological man who identifies as not a man? What is it that separates the 2?

Anyone?

You are very naive if you think this argument is over.

It never will be on your terms because trans people aren’t just going to disappear.

And now we have the body responsible for promoting equality and human rights interpreting equalities / anti discrimination law as saying that trans women must be excluded from women’s spaces and it’s also perfectly lawful to exclude them from the men’s but it’s all ok because they can go in the “other” space, for “other” (weird) people that aren’t lawfully allowed to be around anyone because their weirdness makes the normies too uncomfortable .

It’s actually sick. Sick.

I wonder if some posters are so heavily invested because they have professional investment in the issue. How many of them have qualifications or roles that they have built around this belief.

Oh how generous.

The absolute absurdity.

Does anyone else picture lostcat as one of those Japanese soldiers who didn't believe WW2 had ended and wouldn't come out of the battlefield?

TRAs love insisting the law provides for a case by case basis - this is literally it. Organisations can figure it for themselves how configure their facilities and remain legally compliant without shafting women 🙂

• however where facilities are available to both men and women, trans people should not be put in a position where there are no facilities for them to use

Yes they are wrong- it’s all because of the ideological position of the woman in charge- and there will be a lot of legal opinion coming out challenging their nonsense . I doubt their nonsence will be sustainable but you never know these days as things just keep getting worse and worse .

• *trans women (biological men) should not be permitted to use the women’s facilities and trans men (biological women) should not be permitted to use the men’s facilities, as this will mean that they are no longer single-sex facilities and must be open to all users of the opposite sex
• in some circumstances the law also allows trans women (biological men) not to be permitted to use the men’s facilities, and trans men (biological woman) not to be permitted to use the women’s facilities*

this would actually be laughable if it wasn’t so disgraceful .

The public body charged with writing guidance so that businesses and services can implement the law, as clarified by the highest court in the land, says it's so.

And they're wrong, and you're right?

The EHRC is completely spot on and quite literally following the letter of the law. Is it illegal to allow trans identified men into the women's toilet? No. Is it potentially unlawful and discriminatory? Yes. The EHRC interim guidance is perfectly in line with the judgement and the Equality Act. Importantly, it's also perfectly in line with all the women who have been saying all along, this is the law. And all the organisations, schools and workplaces who also provided single sex spaces and services before they were Stonewalled.

Yes

but according to your posts nothing has changed and nothing will change

no one has implemented anything yet as most are waiting for the guidance, which cannot come a minute too soon imho

so why the complaining?

That's really useful. It's stronger than I thought it was.