To be shocked by a transwoman guest on Jeremy Vine today asking a female caller what sex she is - and whether she’s “been tested?”

Even since the movement, I’ve not gone in to the toilet thinking ‘I really need to have an awareness of who’s in here’. Nobody has ever bothered me with any untoward behaviour for me to question their gender.

The problem with putting emphasis on behaviour rather than presence, so, in other words, accepting the presence of male people who are not behaving badly; is that it fails to take account of how quickly sexual assaults can happen. The man who assaulted a woman in New Street station toilets, claiming in his police interview he was a woman, assaulted his victim by bending down beside her and putting his hand up her skirt while she was drying her hands. One minute standing nearby, the next assaulting her. No preliminary suspicious behaviour for her to challenge, other than being a man. Which as he claimed he was a woman, wasn't considered suspicious either prior to the ruling. The other problem is, that the man standing there innocently washing his hands while in a toilet with multiple women, may behave very differently if it ended up being just him and one woman left in there.

Maybe, to make sure that it never happens, women could wear some uniform or carry an ID card/chip that would prove sex?

You're welcome 😁

I agree with you, and the constant attention it’s afforded makes the whole thing worse. I hope the SC ruling takes the heat out of the conversation and it settles - I doubt it though.

Up until the trans movement went all out on gender self ID, I really didn’t give it any thought.

Since then, it’s something I’m aware of.

Pretty much every woman will either have had periods, or had testing to determine why not if that haven't started by 19. So yes basically everyone has been tested if necessary.

And I’m sorry you’ve had to experience that - I personally don’t even notice the people around me in a toilet, I don’t scan them upon entry. I go in, do my business, wash my hands and leave.

I think my post is more general - the countless threads on this, when most people are very unlikely to ever be in a situation where they need to care.

@JasmineAllen Thanks. I now feel much more confident that I'll never be confused for a man.

Like I say I reckon 13/14 times for me since 2015, before that, never.

I’m interested to know how many women have actually been in a toilet and felt the need to question someone’s gender. Because up to this point in my life, I have never even given it a thought. Just seems like a lot of this debate is based on a hypothetical scenario but is clearly causing a lot of upset to both sides.

Yeah so Tilda Swinton I think is incredibly feminine looking even though she typically dresses androgynously. I’d never expect anyone to be in any doubt that she is a woman. That’s, sadly, not the same situation that I’m in.

I’ve only ever been challenged by other women, should I be obnoxious to them? That puts me at risk though, I don’t know how that woman will react?

Plenty of women can look androgynous. I used to revel in my androgyny when I was younger because I'm tall and slim (and a big fan of Tilda Swinton), but IME as soon as someone walks, speaks, interacts you can tell what sex they are very easily.

It will only be asked by posturing idiots and I expect will get old very quickly because it's such a stupid thing to ask.

I noticed that too. The extreme obsessiveness is another giveaway.

The correct answer would seem to be "No, ta. Got a vagina, ta. An actual functioning one, rather than a festering wound, for the avoidance of doubt." The bigger issue is that the majority of women have been conditioned to be polite and considerate. Time we learned to meet blunt and obnoxious with blunt and obnoxious.

What makes him male and gay, if there is no such thing as a sexed body or same-sex attraction?

Yes, I do think that’s changed for me from this thread.

The two things are linked though, and I’m posting because I’m free to do so, like everyone else. Stop engaging with me if you don’t want to chat. Being asked to prove you are a woman more often directly impacts me more than most, of course I want to talk about it.

At least we've moved on to you permitting women to ask politely rather than not at all.

I'm incredulous that one poster who feels women have been mean a dozen or so times in her whole life has been posting incessantly for hours completely derailing the thread and making it all about their own anecdata. Please Fanny, start your own thread about the nasty women who call you names, don't confuse it with the issue at hand which is men being told they cannot legally use female spaces. If you are a woman you will be fine using them, and changing it back doesn't make those women less likely to have said that to you either. Move on and think about all of the other women, just for a moment.

I agree, I just want to have a piss in peace. Women should be responsible for their own individual behaviour and allow me to do that or, if my presence is causing them to feel unsafe, approach me in a polite, non threatening way and say ‘excuse me, I’m feeling threatened by you, can you please confirm you’re a biological female?’ And not call me a pervert or tell me I don’t ‘pass’ as I try to wash my hands. We don’t disagree.

Why exactly is the responsibility for sexism and homophobia being landed squarely on the existence of women's spaces and desire of women to see them sustained? Come on to fuck here. Individual women night be sexist, misogynistic and homophobic and that should be challenged if possible when it happens - but it is not a reason or an excuse to diminish our collective rights.

This was brought TO women, by men.

@ExpatMum41 Anyone who disagrees with you is suddenly a man?
This proves my point, how do we prove we're female?
I've been called a faggot before when I was with my BF. I've had three children and I'm currently going through the menopause. Would I have to drop my knickers?