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Wwyd? School issues

60 replies

notsureyetcertain · 23/04/2025 07:28

My son is autistic, he is 9 in mainstream school. He has a ehcp and higher level funding, he has a full time 1:1 for his emotional regulation and processing issues. He is working at or above age related.
until this year (year 5) he has managed quite well in school in fact last year he had an amazing year, no issues at all he enjoyed going to school and did well. I’ve never had any major concerns about how they manage him.
This year he has a new (to the school) teacher, unfortunately there was a mass exodus last summer and there are 7 new teachers (in a junior school where only 11 teachers are employed) All three of the year five teachers are new. He had have his 1:1 from the previous year though.
initally there were a few minor issues (messing about, shouting out), I spoke to the teacher each time and made suggestions to support him (based on what had worked previously) these were ignored. He then got bullied by a boy in the class (with other children joining in). Thankfully that boy left the school. Since then there has been a few issues of hitting that’s been mentioned. (3 in one term) They also have issue with his echolalia, I’ve asked about strategies they can use but again not sure it’s being implemented. He hates school and doesn’t want to go

Recently I’ve been given a behaviour management form to sign saying they will use restraint where necessary. I’m concerned that that would be extremely distressing for him (as a person who doesn’t like to be touched) and I’m concerned they are not being honest about his behaviour and what’s happening in school. (He doesn’t tell me anything)

I’ve lost trust in the school and I’m also aware they brought a new extremely strict behaviour policy in this year and there has been 12 exclusions since all Sen children.

Would you move schools? Bear in mind there one year left.

OP posts:
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Countmeout · 25/04/2025 13:38

Sounds a very stressful situation.
i agree the numbers of teachers changing must be distressing as there may be a great deal of coping with the unexpected in the various encounters with staff throughout the day.
i understand the effect a change of classroom assistant has too, this happened to my GD losing a beloved assistant who moved jobs and having her replaced. The initial assistant could read her perfectly and the relationship was great. Like your experience the replacement is just not the same.

However I think by moving as your are being urged to could some mean jumping from the frying pan into the fire at a crucial time. I think he has only one more year at Primary (I am not in England and year groups are different) particularly as he is expected to go on to mainstream due to his ability.. I would pursue all support available, not sure what this is in England but there is an autism support service here. Here they would go in and see what strategies are being implemented and make suggestions as to how to manage things . They also help prepare for transition to the next level.

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 25/04/2025 13:11

MollyButton · 25/04/2025 11:39

Do not agree to restraint! I very much doubt they have training to do this safely - and it should always be a last resort.
( I have known classrooms be emptied of the other children for their safety, but not restraint).
The school in general is now “failing” at least your child. I would be looking for another school - either mainstream or SEN.
It may have been fine for your child until this year, but with 7 new teachers out of 11 it is not the same school.
Behaviour is communication - and your son is communicating feeling unsafe and frustrated. Teachers could be scapegoating him to cover their own lack of control of the class. Who knows what micro-aggressions he is experiencing?
please get him out of there ASAP

A lot of mainstream schools now do have staff who are trained in "positive handling" - this includes guiding and holding children to keep themselves and others safe. Clearing a classroom of other children is not always enough to ensure everyone is safe.

MollyButton · 25/04/2025 11:39

Do not agree to restraint! I very much doubt they have training to do this safely - and it should always be a last resort.
( I have known classrooms be emptied of the other children for their safety, but not restraint).
The school in general is now “failing” at least your child. I would be looking for another school - either mainstream or SEN.
It may have been fine for your child until this year, but with 7 new teachers out of 11 it is not the same school.
Behaviour is communication - and your son is communicating feeling unsafe and frustrated. Teachers could be scapegoating him to cover their own lack of control of the class. Who knows what micro-aggressions he is experiencing?
please get him out of there ASAP

notsureyetcertain · 25/04/2025 11:36

Swiftie1878 · 25/04/2025 09:54

Make notes of your meeting, and email them asking confirmation of what you have understood they said.
They’ll be hard pushed to exclude him if they are telling you everything is still OK, and this is purely an admin matter.
They’ll need evidence to exclude.

Yes that’s a good point

OP posts:
Swiftie1878 · 25/04/2025 09:54

notsureyetcertain · 25/04/2025 06:00

I’m concerned they have combined the ABC with positive handling plan as it means most Sen kids will be on it on the basis they benefit from a ABCplan. My dd says in their (Sen) school a positive handling plan is a step 2 on behaviour management with stage 3 being moving class, APs and exclusion. So it feels a step close to exclusion.

Make notes of your meeting, and email them asking confirmation of what you have understood they said.
They’ll be hard pushed to exclude him if they are telling you everything is still OK, and this is purely an admin matter.
They’ll need evidence to exclude.

notsureyetcertain · 25/04/2025 06:00

I’m concerned they have combined the ABC with positive handling plan as it means most Sen kids will be on it on the basis they benefit from a ABCplan. My dd says in their (Sen) school a positive handling plan is a step 2 on behaviour management with stage 3 being moving class, APs and exclusion. So it feels a step close to exclusion.

OP posts:
24Dogcuddler · 24/04/2025 23:08

Holding or escorting by the wrist is known as “ caring C” in terms of the grip and shouldn’t hurt or leave a bruise. Obviously if a child is autistic even light touch can be painful , depending on sensory needs.
If they are regularly “having to” hold him you would see 3 chairs in a corridor taped together. An adult would be either side using a hold that they are trained to use.
A positive handling plan should outline any triggers and de escalation strategies. It doesn’t mean that they can’t use a behaviour observation such as STAR or ABC.
Could he have a workstation in class for when he needs to concentrate away from others?
Hope everything settles down soon at school.

notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 17:29

So we had the meeting. They completely played it down saying they have stopped doing ABC forms and combined in it with positive handling plan. Said nothing has changed about his behaviour it’s just a new form that’s been updated. They apologised that I was given it in the playground to sign.

im relived nothing major has changed in his behaviour but I’m not convinced they are being honest. They also said all staff are team teach trained which I would’ve surprised at purely due to cost.

id spoken to ds last night and asked him if anyone has ever held him so he can’t move and he said yes all the time. I asked him where and he said they hold his wrist tight and it hurts. When I asked about team teach restraints they showed me a wrist one that they use. But then said they had never used it on my son, I explained what my son had said and the senco said she would look into it and wondered if he meant when his ta was leading him back to the class room.

im still not happy I’m getting the full story. And my son communicates minimally so it’s difficult getting information out of him.

OP posts:
RavenLaw · 24/04/2025 13:52

notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:27

Thank you for helping me. I do want him to stay in mainstream as he is pretty academic and a maths wiz. He wants to go to university to study maths. I worry if we go down the sen school route he will have reduced opportunities. There is a school for asd kids locally , they have two routes the first they sit some GCSEs (usually around 5). And the second is life skills. But I’m concerned he wouldn’t get enough to follow his dreams.

Not all SEN schools cater to children who are non-academic. Maybe have a look for independent specialists near you that cater to children who have high cognitive abilities but also need the additional support of an autism specialist school. They're few and far between but they do exist.

juneisjuly · 24/04/2025 12:56

I would be very shocked if they were asking to restrain him for things like echolalia and not being able to complete work, no teacher wants to restrain a child for fun.
it’s pretty obvious it would only be a last resort if he ran away again during altercations with children. You say he’s hit 3 children in the last term and pushed another and you can’t expect the other children to just put up with that because it would upset your son to be restrained and pulled away from them.

notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 12:31

CleverButScatty · 24/04/2025 10:47

OP just to be really clear, it is unlawful for a school to use physical force for non compliance with rules.
It is only ever 'reasonable' (this is the key legal term) when it is the only way to keep him or someone else safe in the moment. Even then , the level of force used should be the absolute minimum required to ensure the safety of him or others.
I would start a formal complaint process and I would also be making contact with your LA SEND team and asking for an EHCP review now ( you don't need to wait for the AR).

Edited

Thank you I will clarify at the meeting. As far as I can see the behaviours listed only the running away (which he doesn’t do that I’m aware of) and altercations (which is vague) with other children are the only potential reasons

OP posts:
CleverButScatty · 24/04/2025 10:47

OP just to be really clear, it is unlawful for a school to use physical force for non compliance with rules.
It is only ever 'reasonable' (this is the key legal term) when it is the only way to keep him or someone else safe in the moment. Even then , the level of force used should be the absolute minimum required to ensure the safety of him or others.
I would start a formal complaint process and I would also be making contact with your LA SEND team and asking for an EHCP review now ( you don't need to wait for the AR).

Swiftie1878 · 24/04/2025 07:59

notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:57

So he had a 1:1 in year 4 who came u to y5 with him he had a great relationship with her, she left at Christmas. They were supposed to hire a new 1:1 but had to suspend 5 of their TA’s (no one knows why not even me and I’m on the BOG) so he ended up with a 1:1 who has worked at the school about twenty years, he knows her and had her for a while in y3 . It seemed like the best option as the other option was agency staff which would be a nightmare. He’s had this 1:1 since January, she’s lovely but not sure how knowledgeable she is about asd behaviour.

Edited

This is astonishing. Have to question either the management of the school, or the effectiveness of the BOG if 5 TAs have been suspended and with no explanation.
Sounds like there’s more going on there than how they are handling your son and other SEN children.
I’d be looking to move 🥴

CopperWhite · 24/04/2025 07:06

1SillySossij · 24/04/2025 00:06

You are living in cloud cuckoo land! The school have a duty of care to other children and staff, they cant let a child go round assaulting others, trashing the school and other people's things, or making it so others can't feel safe and learn. The school do not need the ops permission.

Other children and staff can be moved. We don’t restrain children unless absolutely necessary for their safety and there is no possible other way of keeping everyone safe.

notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:57

MixedBananas · 24/04/2025 06:44

Where is the class support? His 1:1 are they new?
It is a shame things changed so much. But there is stress and oressure on the teachers. Brand new, fewer staff, less experince. It is unfair to expect them to deal with it.

I have a BFF who has an autistic child in mainstream but no funding for support but he has issues and will be excluded if it continues in hsve suggested to her to home school as she is the only one who can truly manage hum. So I can only suggest it here with you. Home school and Forest school

So he had a 1:1 in year 4 who came u to y5 with him he had a great relationship with her, she left at Christmas. They were supposed to hire a new 1:1 but had to suspend 5 of their TA’s (no one knows why not even me and I’m on the BOG) so he ended up with a 1:1 who has worked at the school about twenty years, he knows her and had her for a while in y3 . It seemed like the best option as the other option was agency staff which would be a nightmare. He’s had this 1:1 since January, she’s lovely but not sure how knowledgeable she is about asd behaviour.

OP posts:
notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:51

itsgettingweird · 24/04/2025 06:23

Restraint should be used as a last resort for safety of all concerned.

If they need to use restraint then that needs to go alongside putting support in place to reduce or eliminate the need for it.

Mu concern wouldn’t be so much the use of restraint but rather its plan for use alongside their lack of implementing suggested strategies and the evidenced exclusion of children with send previously.

What you’ve probably had to sign is a new behaviour plan where they’ve added restraint as part of the plan because the planned strategies may not work. Legally they don’t need your permission to use reasonable force or restrictive physical intervention and currently the law means they aren’t required to inform you if they do - it’s guidance as good practice.

Id also be asking them if they’ve sought training from a registered provider on safe positive handing if they are planning on using restraint. Again the law doesn’t require them too but its guidance of good practice where you think it may be used as planned intervention rather than an active reaction to a one off situation. (When we grab our own children because they are running off this is restraint/ reasonable force so it’s not always a bigger a thing as people imagine).

When’s his AR due? I would be making sure the EHCP is watertight and section F is as clear as can be. But if you don’t feel they can meet need then I’d be moving even if it is only for a year. I made the mistake with my DS of keeping him somewhere I knew was damaging because I always hoped if I advocated enough for him and kept mentioning the Sendcop they’d change. But the truth is a poor environment is an ethos and we won’t change that single handedly. It’s infuriating and worrying for our young people.

Unfortunately it’s next March. I’ve had 4 meetings with school last term. His Sen plan meeting, parent teacher meeting, EHCP review and a meeting to discuss the bullying. Not once was behaviour raised as a concern.

i emailed Tuesday and at Tuesday pick up dh was told he drew on a child’s book and Wednesday pick up that he had pushed the same boy (child he sits next in class) I feel like they are now telling us to prove the point it’s needed. Ds wont say much but he did say the boy who sits next to him talks when he’s trying to work and it annoys him.

OP posts:
MixedBananas · 24/04/2025 06:44

Where is the class support? His 1:1 are they new?
It is a shame things changed so much. But there is stress and oressure on the teachers. Brand new, fewer staff, less experince. It is unfair to expect them to deal with it.

I have a BFF who has an autistic child in mainstream but no funding for support but he has issues and will be excluded if it continues in hsve suggested to her to home school as she is the only one who can truly manage hum. So I can only suggest it here with you. Home school and Forest school

Silvertulips · 24/04/2025 06:37

I started reading your post and knew it would be a new teacher issue.

I have seen some kids do great with teachers who understand and really poorly with new teachers.

His 1:2:1 needs to take charge here - I have been a 1:2:1 with these children

He needs to build a relationship with his new teacher - a bit late in the year though

His 1:2:1 need to ensure he gets his break, runs off some steam, run some break classes - be on his side when things go badly -

I always noticed if they were inside they were easy to deal with, but could be stubborn if they felt aggrieved - which then spirals.

I gave up being a TA as I was fed up of being undervalued - the lad went into spiral mode and was excluded after I left, I think he missed the support I gave him! He had a TA in year 6 he hated so started off badly.

My advice would be to get the TA inside ask for a meeting with her, see what the issues are from her perspective - and stop focusing on the teacher. She needs to be empowered to do her job.

.

notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:27

Thank you for helping me. I do want him to stay in mainstream as he is pretty academic and a maths wiz. He wants to go to university to study maths. I worry if we go down the sen school route he will have reduced opportunities. There is a school for asd kids locally , they have two routes the first they sit some GCSEs (usually around 5). And the second is life skills. But I’m concerned he wouldn’t get enough to follow his dreams.

OP posts:
FacingTheWall · 24/04/2025 06:27

notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:22

Sorry if it’s not clear. So the plan listed those behaviours. Then gives a list of actions -
Ask to stop
remind of rules (quote behaviour policy)
remind of earlier positive behaviour
Escort (if needed)
Restrain (if needed)

All the talking will make my son overwhelmed and being held against his will, will cause meltdown.
I assume what the plan is saying is that when he does these behaviours this is what will happen. So they would only go to restraint if needed but a first response.
Then there’s a bit at the bottom to sign saying we give permission to restrain as a last resort when all other actions have been taken.

Sorry, hadn’t seen this when I replied.

They should not be simply implementing the behaviour policy as it is written for everyone else. They need to detail what support they are providing to help him and making adjustments necessary that show they understand his neuro differences. Tribunals have found that such blanket applications of policies in school are likely to be illegal under equality legislation.

FacingTheWall · 24/04/2025 06:23

The only occasion listed there where they might have to handle him is the ‘altercations’ with other children, and they wouldn’t need your permission on such an occasion. I would be very concerned if they were putting hands on him to make him comply with moving on in any other circumstance.

It sounds like they desperately need some advice from a specialist teacher/other professional as to how to manage things in an inclusive way so that he can be supported effectively. Ask them to make a referral to your local team, usually called something like ‘specialist inclusion services’.

itsgettingweird · 24/04/2025 06:23

Restraint should be used as a last resort for safety of all concerned.

If they need to use restraint then that needs to go alongside putting support in place to reduce or eliminate the need for it.

Mu concern wouldn’t be so much the use of restraint but rather its plan for use alongside their lack of implementing suggested strategies and the evidenced exclusion of children with send previously.

What you’ve probably had to sign is a new behaviour plan where they’ve added restraint as part of the plan because the planned strategies may not work. Legally they don’t need your permission to use reasonable force or restrictive physical intervention and currently the law means they aren’t required to inform you if they do - it’s guidance as good practice.

Id also be asking them if they’ve sought training from a registered provider on safe positive handing if they are planning on using restraint. Again the law doesn’t require them too but its guidance of good practice where you think it may be used as planned intervention rather than an active reaction to a one off situation. (When we grab our own children because they are running off this is restraint/ reasonable force so it’s not always a bigger a thing as people imagine).

When’s his AR due? I would be making sure the EHCP is watertight and section F is as clear as can be. But if you don’t feel they can meet need then I’d be moving even if it is only for a year. I made the mistake with my DS of keeping him somewhere I knew was damaging because I always hoped if I advocated enough for him and kept mentioning the Sendcop they’d change. But the truth is a poor environment is an ethos and we won’t change that single handedly. It’s infuriating and worrying for our young people.

notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:22

rosa24 · 24/04/2025 00:46

Echolalia (a asd trait)

being unable to complete work when upset

Being rude to staff

Why on earth would any child need to be restrained in these situations? (Unless I've misunderstood OP's post!) I understand the need to restrain a child if they are posing a physical risk to themselves or others but surely they don't feel the need to restrain him for the above? It sounds to me that the new teacher doesn't understand how to work with OP's DS or simply doesn't have the capacity due to how teachers are being stretched at the moment. I say this as a secondary school teacher who is seeing an ever increasing number of students with SEN in their groups. There's something not right here OP, I wouldn't agree to my child being restrained for the above reasons! I'd either be going in to see the SENDCO or looking to move schools. That percentage of teachers leaving in one year is also very worrying!

Sorry if it’s not clear. So the plan listed those behaviours. Then gives a list of actions -
Ask to stop
remind of rules (quote behaviour policy)
remind of earlier positive behaviour
Escort (if needed)
Restrain (if needed)

All the talking will make my son overwhelmed and being held against his will, will cause meltdown.
I assume what the plan is saying is that when he does these behaviours this is what will happen. So they would only go to restraint if needed but a first response.
Then there’s a bit at the bottom to sign saying we give permission to restrain as a last resort when all other actions have been taken.

OP posts:
notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:13

QueenofLouisiana · 23/04/2025 23:26

I’m sorry that this is where you are. The fact that he disliked school and you feel that you’ve lost faith suggests that a new setting would be useful.

In the meantime, I’d be asking:
who would be laying hands on your child? What training have they had? Does this include de-escalation techniques? Ask to look at the recording methods for physical intervention. Staff are legally allowed to do this, when there are risks to the child of others, with particular techniques which should be taught and assessed. However, there must be a robust recording process.

What are the “issues” with echolalia? Is your child a gestalt language processor? Do the staff need additional training to understand and support?

Sensory breaks: are these being supported? There should be a better plan than “letting him out of the room”! Are there sensory circuits or a sensory diet in place? With a 1:1 these could be facilitated quite easily and could help before a crisis is reached.

Sorry! Feels like a bit of an essay. I’m a teacher in a specialist setting, I’m very keen that children should have the support they need to access learning!

Thank you I’ve made notes. My dd is a TA in a Sen school (where behaviour can be extremely challenging ) and she doesn’t understand why this is happening/necessary. Obviously home life is set up better but we never have to touch him to get him to do what we want even if he’s overwhelmed.

OP posts:
notsureyetcertain · 24/04/2025 06:09

1SillySossij · 23/04/2025 23:14

I don't understand this. Restraint is only allowed to be used as a last resort where your dc is at risk of hurting himself or someone else. They are telling you as a courtesy because they don't need your permission.is your boy autistic? Ime year 5 is when behaviour problems in boys with SN really ramp up.

Yes he was diagnosed at 3, school have always supported pretty well up to now. This is the thing I don’t know if he’s deteriorated due to the teacher/staff, the new stricter behaviour policy staff are following or if it’s his age.

OP posts: