To think that social standards have slipped because people don’t feel shame anymore?

There are a lot of improvements with life today, I wouldn't want to have grown up in the world that my mother did; manners are for shit when there's no equality.

Perhaps but modern culture and what is socially acceptable is constantly shifting. What would society have said in the early 1900s about you walking around in trousers?
Now I’m thinking about it, I think society evolves more than we realise!

Yes I agree and I think I remember the point at which it turned; The Millenium or just after.

I'd just turned 30 and I'd lived a good and free-spirited life and considered myself worldly but I just remember feeling slightly uncomfortable with each passing year as more and more things seemed to become, if not acceptable, then not banned or forbidden.

I remember in 2001 (I think), the new Renault Megan being advertised with that song - "I see you baby, shaking that ass." I remember thinking that "ass" would never have been allowed on TV before the watershed.

I also remember the antics of the housemates in Big Brother during the first few years - does anyone remember Kanga (I think it was?) pleasuring herself on the lawn with a wine bottle? That was a first.

Then we had the rise of the rap music videos with near naked women and expletives used as punctuation... and then we had the explosion of pole dancing and lap dancing clubs - I remember driving past a gym and being able to watch women in bikinis upside down on poles. I think it was an age of excess, culminating in the financial crash where most people lost their shirt ... except the bankers who were bailed out as a reward for bad behaviour. Being good and decent didnt seem to count for much any longer.

I definitely think that TV/film/music has a huge impact on people.

Yeah I’ve noticed just even normal politeness has slid. You can lay that at societies feet but ultimately it’s on each individual to decide to be better. Even if society is a bloody dump I don’t think I’d change my behaviour, be a bit warier perhaps but politeness and civility are usually ingrained throughout childhood. My 5yr old automatically says thank you in shops, restaurants etc. Not a perfect child by any means but you usually know how to behave because someone bothered to teach you. We need to stop pathologising every little thing as being the fault of “society”. We are society.

I think a large problem is that people dont take responsibility for themselves anymore. Their problems are always 'someone else's fault'. Obviously in some cases that will be true but in the majority people need to take accountability for their own actions and the outcomes they bring. Im talking about myself here to, i am quite capable of being all 'woe is me' if i let myself!

I agree ^

YANBU OP.

Moral panic trumps! If you find yourself complaining about the next generation its because you've just realised your generation is becoming less relevant. I blame ITV and E numbers.

Oh.

Yes. Pride is definitely lacking across the board.
In work I have noticed a huge difference in the last decade, there is a fine line between casual and sloppy.

I think it’s a great idiom and I will continue to use it, and no I don’t find it sexist at all.

I can’t relate or say I’ve noticed this, no. The only times I can recall hearing people talking loudly in public on speaker phone tends to be people from other countries and so probably more of a cultural thing than ‘lack of shame’.
I think for the most part that people are good. Could this be rose tinted glasses? Pretty much every generation has similar to say about the generation below them.

Seems to be some sort of reaction to the ‘stiff upper lip’ thing?

Tgere seems to be a certain lack of courtesy and manners. I think it’s always been there but has got worse.

Interesting.

Do you see all shame as a bad thing?

For example (just off the top of my head), if you were sitting at a table with 2 friends and there were 3 cakes, let's just say you grabbed and ate all 3 cakes leaving them with none.

Should you not feel ashamed of your actions?

This is of course very true.

So we are going to end up like the Victorians. And they were (mostly) feral

This just comes around and around

I am not that old, but I do think personal hygiene is a lot better overall than in the 80s (not that most people were stinky but there was more of it than now)

I don’t fully agree that people with no money back in the day or now are to blame for the lack of manner and decorum today. Also don’t agree that moneyed folk all have great manners or decorum.

I don’t think that’s what @MrsTerryPratchett is saying. The social contract is a construct whereby if you do your part, in whatever way that might be, you’ll gain certain benefits in society.

It used to be that holding down a job, being responsible, gaining an education etc would enable you to have a certain lifestyle (whether that be working class, middle class whatever). That social contract is broken for many people - they do the work, behave responsibly etc but can’t afford the associated lifestyle and social capital. That means people don’t feel the same duty towards social convention and so standards of behaviour slip.

Yes I know what it means thanks.

However, I believe sexist phrases should remain firmly in the past.

Don't you?

I find it really unsettling that you want people to feel shame. That’s a really nasty thought to have.

I think so too but I’m not sure if I’m judgemental due to my upbringing and what I was told was important.

I do think it’s better for social cohesion if we can expect minimum standards from other people around us. I don’t think mines are even that high.
Pretty much be courteous, and be mindful that what you do affects others. Little things like where possible try to avoid making lots of noise around others or noise at unsociable times especially if you live in a flat. Being malodorous is pretty unpleasant especially at work or on public transport , don’t litter, pick up after your pets.

Feel free not to bring your whole self to work in bondage leather and post photos online.

I do agree with you OP but as someone who was brought up constantly being told (angry whisper) "stop it, what will people think, everyone's looking at you"....I ended up with a severe social anxiety by my late teens and just popping into a supermarket for a sandwich had me having a full blown panic attack.

Thankfully I bought my house at 20 and I had to force myself to do life maintainence but even 25+ years later I'm still (secretly) terribly self-conscious when out the house.

I would prefer kids are empowered to be themselves that brought up to feel a life of shame or embarrassment for things that aren't really important in the grand scale of things.

Yet people are shamed for anything and everything on here!!

It’s not something I’ve noticed in public, but I have seen the opposite at work. I work in a very male dominated industry that was rife with sexual harassment. In the last 10yrs this has drastically improved and it’s such a nicer atmosphere. Maybe because people are less afraid to call things out now?

I don’t fully agree that people with no money back in the day or now are to blame for the lack of manner and decorum today. Also don’t agree that moneyed folk all have great manners or decorum.
I agree and we talk a lot in my circles about WTAF is wrong with some people or most people today, but I’ve never heard it down to economic situation.