To think that social standards have slipped because people don’t feel shame anymore?

OP, you are 100% correct.

Having grown up in Australia, I would agree with UGG boots. They used to be purely indoor slippers and only ‘bogans’ used to wear them outside in their country of origin. I was utterly shocked and horrified that Britons of all classes wore them in the street, that even really ‘smart’ ones from society families wore them on their way to work etc. I thought everyone had lost their minds, I still do.

Money has nothing to do with manners and decorum.

Hahaha, I see what you did there 🫠🤣

Did the dog shit duo kill the thread? That's a shame.

Could you two not just agree to differ? It's getting frustrating trying to read around your childish argument.

Erm I don't think it's the younger generation, I'm in my 60's and I see it in all ages including my own and some people older than me

I agree with the idea of the social contract being a factor. In a situational context - one person or a group of people in a public place behaving in a way that negatively impacts everyone else - it takes a more immediate form in that the concept of a community, an "us" with some common needs and interests, is eroded. We used to have the idea that by behaving in a polite or considerate manner (not necessarily proactively, but at least not interfering with others) we'd do our bit in keeping public space pleasant and functional to maintain a mutually agreed upon public order or common good.

But if it seems that good (or at least not-bad) behaviour isn't reciprocated because so many people are doing absolutely whatever they can get away, it may start to seem foolish to make any effort make others more comfortable. Naturally people resist this; THEY won't change their lifelong behaviour just because others are rude or ignorant. But when the more considerate, civic-minded behaviour is no longer the norm, people who grow up with or become used to the ruder version may just go along with it (along with anyone else who just doesn't want to bother for whatever reason).

I wonder if the prolonged break from really ANY face to face contact with strangers, along with the unusually strong regulation of behaviour when IN public, that we saw during COVID artificially accelerated an ongoing decline. I also think the increased fear of speaking out in case of violent retaliation sometimes plays a part. I only care about the behaviour that impacts me, though - person in the next seat blasting music with no headphones all through an eight hour flight drives me crazy. Person in the next seat wearing an ill-fitting mismatched clown suit, cowboy boots, and a tiara? Perfectly fine.

I think if an individual wants to take a negative emotion like shame or guilt and use it to motivate themselves to be better person then good for them, I'm all for that.

I don't think you can do that for someone else by trying to make them feel shame or guilt.

Yeah course. Even you don’t believe that.

i agree, you’ve had enough internet for today

I don't think there is a particularly interesting discussion to be had with anyone who believes rapists, murderers and paedophiles should never feel ashamed?

Shocking and depressing absolutely, but that's about it.

Enough internet?

Why on earth can't you wash on a Sunday who said so?
It's crazy
Where did this rubbish originate from?

You’re trying the dog shit argument again. Or as another poster put it “have you stopped beating up our wife yet?” Question.

it could be an interesting discussion if you had the emotional bandwidth to have it

But you're right, we are going around in circles here.

If you genuinely believe that a rapist, murderer or a paedophile should never feel any shame then we're never going to agree.

It’s not true that people who feel shame as less likely to reoffend.

it doesn’t matter if you think it’s obvious, you don’t know anything about it.

What's not true?

Anyone who feels genuine shame is less likely to re-offend than those who don't.

That's blatantly obvious surely?

Of course it doesn't mean they won't re-offend but if someone's whispering in their ear "Ahh now don't you go feeling ashamed of yourself mate", they'd be a lot more likely to.

That's pretty obvious I think?

We’re going round in circles though because that’s not true, and people told you that pages ago

Interesting that another thread where a worried mum is being attacked and told she should be judged and judged badly because she is brave enough to express worries about her daughter being disabled (or might be)

So that type of judgement is ok I suppose?

But generally speaking we mustnt judge?

Well if they're truly and genuinely ashamed, they're a lot less likely to re-offend.

Unless they're told by someone like yourself that shame is a bad thing and they shouldn't ever feel it.

its obviously no problem not to like people 🤔 but that’s not the same as shame and it’s not a language thing as shame is a specific emotion

This sounds a bit like the Transphobia argument.
People are saying the word shame is unacceptable so I suppose you could say you feel an affinity with others or not depending on their behaviour or a solidarity with most people but which you don’t feel for certain other members of society. Rather than use shame.

“Murderers, rapists, con artists, thieves, thugs, pedophiles etc should very much hang their heads in shame.”

so what do you get out of the murders who hang their head in shame that you don’t get from those who aren’t ashamed?

What specifically does it do, for you, to know which ones experience shame and which don't?

someone still got murdered either way, right?

The dog shit is irrelevant.

I could just as easily have given another example of shameful behaviour and you would still have said they shouldn't feel shame, wouldn't you?

The idea that no-one should ever feel shame because shame is a bad thing according to you, is utterly bizarre.

Murderers, rapists, con artists, thieves, thugs, pedophiles etc should very much hang their heads in shame.

Again, shame is not always a bad thing.

You are the only one who has asked about dog shit. I have literally never had a problem with dog shit in my life.

i am ALLOWED to think shame is a bad thing. You are not right, you don’t set the rules. I don’t care what you think, but I do think you are showing a serious lack of emotional
intelligence with this shame as punishment think and you probably don’t know much about the impacts of shame