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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to suggest it is time to stop the pretence that people can transition?

238 replies

happydappy2 · 22/04/2025 15:38

I really feel gender ideology is a cult, that has totally warped some peoples minds. It brings so many problems to society I’m not sure it’s sustainable. It damages the health of young people, shortens their lives and often rips families apart. At what point do we say no, this is not healthy, it’s incredibly antisocial to expect everyone else to pretend you are the opposite sex when they can see you aren’t….for the good of society let’s stop this madness. Gender dysphoria exists yes but I don’t think we’re treating it in the best way. We don’t affirm that an anorexic patient is indeed too fat so why do we affirm people who think they are the opposite sex?

OP posts:
MyHeartyCoralSnail · 22/04/2025 21:31

Janesmom · 22/04/2025 20:49

Well said!

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Have you entered a secondary school lately - although to be fair Furries are gaining ground.

My son’s school has lessons which state “ you can be anything you want to be” including -when my son jokingly asked-a train. Absolute bollocks of time wasting - when the curriculum is under so much time pressure -luckily my son recognises this as twaddle , but some kids are vulnerable to this stuff.

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 22/04/2025 21:29

sparrowflewdown · 22/04/2025 21:20

These are 12 and 13 year old girls! Also surely the % should be much smaller anyway as the default position is heterosexual.unless I'm mistaken. 2 heterosexual and then 9 gay or bi - very odd.

They are so young to be thinking about what sexual orientation they are.

Edited
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PP actually meant ages 10 and 11.
So Y6/7.

Rosie8880 · 22/04/2025 21:27

pyzaz · 22/04/2025 21:00

When my DDs started secondary school, age 11, they both had to declare whether they were straight, gay, trans, bi, pan etc. This is age 11, 5 years before the age of consent. It's completely mad what's going on in secondary schools. The vast majority of my DDs friends said they were gay, bi or pan, but I just think that's because most of them are actually still asexual at that age, and still only hang out with other girls. Aside from the fact that I don't think any of them knew the meaning of any of the words anyway. I didn't have any feelings for either sex until I was about 14, and then pretty quickly realised I was straight.

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Thanks for the clarification this was peer to peer not teachers asking them to declare..! I think kids are all different - I was in primary school in the 80s. At age 4 I had crushes on tv and pop stars, at age 6/7 on other older kids in school, age 8 had first boyfriend of sorts (school ground stuff). Age 10/11 knew I was bisexual/queer. Had first proper kiss at 11/12. This was not uncommon at my school/ area (richmond/ sw London). My main worry today is the 1000000s of images / videos available to kids online that are sexual. I worry about this the most. I’m not sure kids knowing they are gay or bi or curious is more/ less now - than other decades just that it is more accepted / and hopefully never an issue. Again others may disagree - respect your options.

Panterusblackish · 22/04/2025 21:25

TonTonMacoute · 22/04/2025 19:04

As a person born as a woman at birth I do not understand why there is a focus on this at the moment. It seemed to be a fringe issue for decades and then to my mind out of no where there has been this focus on trans women in toilets and prisons. Have to be honest - just seems a bit weird.

Yes, it is weird isn't it? Perhaps you should have a read of this article, it will explain a lot.

Article

Thanks for posting this

lifeturnsonadime · 22/04/2025 21:23

LuvACustardCream · 22/04/2025 19:10

I think there's a lot of trans hatred and ignorance on mumsnet and it's pretty shocking to be honest. Your opinion doesn't make something fact.

Fact 1 - human's can't change sex.
Fact 2 - Single sex spaces are based on sex not gender.
Fact 3 - It is not hatred for women to want to be treated as fully human.
Fact 4 - It is not hatred for women to want single sex spaces away from all men.
Fact 5 - It is not hatred for women to want children to protected from bodily harm in pursuit of something that cannot happen (change sex).

sparrowflewdown · 22/04/2025 21:20

Rosie8880 · 22/04/2025 20:16

What is the issue tho with kids at 10/11 being gay/ bisexual? Isn’t that something to be proud of - that they feel comfortable expressing themselves and feel safe to do so?

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These are 12 and 13 year old girls! Also surely the % should be much smaller anyway as the default position is heterosexual.unless I'm mistaken. 2 heterosexual and then 9 gay or bi - very odd.

They are so young to be thinking about what sexual orientation they are.

GarlicSmile · 22/04/2025 21:20

Rosie8880 · 22/04/2025 19:57

Just words…this is where I think it’s different for some. For those that want us to call them by different pronouns - I mean is it such a huge deal to say this.? I mean, we use all sorts of prefixes all the time in society in addition to he/ she…. sir: miss; lord/ lady; miss/ mrs/ ms; etc. To support those who it does mean a great deal too - just like those who get married don’t want to be called miss anymore they are mrs etc - why can’t we just accept and say it. Again, respect others may have different views.

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Sure, Rosie, it's completely harmless.

Lexi Rose Crawford was jailed for nine years for raping a young girl. Throughout the trial the court referred to him as "she" and discussed how she used her penis to commit the rape.

Jordan Gray famously stripped naked on Channel Four to play the piano with her penis.

Chloe Thompson was convicted of committing a public nuisance by indecent exposure, exposing her penis to members of the public while performing a sex act upon herself.

Jane Knightingale exposed her penis and testicles when she opened her front door to two police officers.

The courts found Isla Bryson, of pink leggings notoriety, guilty of two rapes, hearing that she entered the victims with her penis.

Samantha Norris has been jailed for two years for possessing 16,000 indecent pictures of children. She'd just been cleared of exposing her penis to two schoolgirls.

It goes on ... There are literally hundreds of incidents involving a "she" and "her penis", and that's just in the UK. Are you really, really happy to divorce pronouns from sex?

Why?

sparrowflewdown · 22/04/2025 21:18

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 22/04/2025 20:17

They're still children at that age!

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Yes these are 12 and 13 year old girls!

lifeturnsonadime · 22/04/2025 21:16

GingerLiberalFeminist · 22/04/2025 15:46

My rudimentary understanding is that gender dysmorphia is a serious mental health condition. I have much less concern sharing toilets with people who have a diagnosis and have had full surgery. But refuges etc should stay single sex. Perhaps with a "third" sex for those tiny amount who have actually actually have transitioned.

So on a practical level how does that work?

How do you know if someone has gender dysphoria or not? And how do you know if they've had full surgery?

And how can you say to a man that he is a woman when it comes to toilets and can be in single sex spaces, but a man when it comes to refuges?

It just doesn't work in practice so the easy way is what the Supreme Court has determined, that all men remain men, even if they identify as trans women. This was always the intention of the Equality Act and this mess would never have happened if Stonewall had not misrepresented the law and if organisations hadn't have blindly followed Stonewall's misrepresentation of what the law says.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/04/2025 21:12

pyzaz · 22/04/2025 21:09

@MissScarletInTheBallroom Sorry, should have said. They all declared it to each other. Everyone would ask each other, so a peer pressure thing.

Oh I see. I had visions of the teachers asking it at first registration.

MumsARecluse · 22/04/2025 21:09

Rosie8880 · 22/04/2025 18:53

Hi, ultimately my feeling is that whatever someone wants to do with their body is up to them. I appreciate there are differing views on this and respect your view. My concern is that there are people out there, trans people, who by a small minority are just going to have their lives made hellish. And that I am sad about.

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Really, so why was this man prohibited from amputating healthy limbs?

https://www.theatlantic.com/past/issues/2000/12/elliott.htm

Why is removing limbs or eyes not ok to remove, but genitals are?

A New Way to Be Mad - 00.12

Medical science has a newly prominent illness: apotemnophilia

https://www.theatlantic.com/past/issues/2000/12/elliott.htm

pyzaz · 22/04/2025 21:09

@MissScarletInTheBallroom Sorry, should have said. They all declared it to each other. Everyone would ask each other, so a peer pressure thing.

purplepenguindancing · 22/04/2025 21:06

pyzaz · 22/04/2025 21:00

When my DDs started secondary school, age 11, they both had to declare whether they were straight, gay, trans, bi, pan etc. This is age 11, 5 years before the age of consent. It's completely mad what's going on in secondary schools. The vast majority of my DDs friends said they were gay, bi or pan, but I just think that's because most of them are actually still asexual at that age, and still only hang out with other girls. Aside from the fact that I don't think any of them knew the meaning of any of the words anyway. I didn't have any feelings for either sex until I was about 14, and then pretty quickly realised I was straight.

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I really think it’s quite disgusting that children are being asked to identify a sexual preference five years before the age of consent. How could anyone have ever thought that was ok?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/04/2025 21:06

pyzaz · 22/04/2025 21:00

When my DDs started secondary school, age 11, they both had to declare whether they were straight, gay, trans, bi, pan etc. This is age 11, 5 years before the age of consent. It's completely mad what's going on in secondary schools. The vast majority of my DDs friends said they were gay, bi or pan, but I just think that's because most of them are actually still asexual at that age, and still only hang out with other girls. Aside from the fact that I don't think any of them knew the meaning of any of the words anyway. I didn't have any feelings for either sex until I was about 14, and then pretty quickly realised I was straight.

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What do you mean they "had to declare" it? To whom? For what purpose?

Tripleblue · 22/04/2025 21:03

MoMhathair · 22/04/2025 15:49

My honest response is that I find the whole transitioning thing utterly bizarre - I don't know how anyone believes for one second that a boy can 'become' a girl - in fact, I have no idea whatsover what that even means. I have female friends that I admire who are vocally supportive of trans people (particuarly trans women) and it makes me feel like they're speaking a totally different language or living on a different planet or something - I can't get my head around they idea that they can look at a six foot person with broad shoulders and a deep voice in a dress and say 'that's a woman.' What's interesting is that when my DS was little he wore dresses and one of those friends automatically assumed he was trans and wanted to be a girl - the idea that a boy could wear dresses just did not compute with her. It seems mad to me that, given recent views, my belief that a boy can wear dresses is in many ways more controversial than the idea that a boy can become a girl. WTF?

People are thick? They don't like using their brain or maybe there is nothing to use.

pyzaz · 22/04/2025 21:00

Rosie8880 · 22/04/2025 20:18

Right, but kids can be gay/ bi in same way as they can be straight at that young age?

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When my DDs started secondary school, age 11, they both had to declare whether they were straight, gay, trans, bi, pan etc. This is age 11, 5 years before the age of consent. It's completely mad what's going on in secondary schools. The vast majority of my DDs friends said they were gay, bi or pan, but I just think that's because most of them are actually still asexual at that age, and still only hang out with other girls. Aside from the fact that I don't think any of them knew the meaning of any of the words anyway. I didn't have any feelings for either sex until I was about 14, and then pretty quickly realised I was straight.

User37482 · 22/04/2025 20:57

I remember when you had a biological sex and a personality (which covered, likes, dislikes, your presentation etc). The whole concept of gender identity is entirely regressive for both men and women. I’m in my 40’s so not ancient, I don’t understand how any of this stuff was seen as progress. It looked like old fashioned bollocks to me.

TheKeatingFive · 22/04/2025 20:53

PandyMoanyMum · 22/04/2025 18:54

I read this from Rebecca Helm, Biology Professor. It’s made me question things. I’d be interested in other biologists point of view because this makes it more complex.
“If you know a bit about biology you will probably say that biological sex is caused by chromosomes, XX and you’re female, XY and you’re male. This is “chromosomal sex” but is it “biological sex”? Well…
Turns out there is only ONE GENE on the Y chromosome that really matters to sex. It’s called the SRY gene. During human embryonic development the SRY protein turns on male-associated genes. Having an SRY gene makes you “genetically male”. But is this “biological sex”?
Sometimes that SRY gene pops off the Y chromosome and over to an X chromosome. Surprise! So now you’ve got an X with an SRY and a Y without an SRY. What does this mean?
A Y with no SRY means physically you’re female, chromosomally you’re male (XY) and genetically you’re female (no SRY). An X with an SRY means you’re physically male, chromsomally female (XX) and genetically male (SRY). But biological sex is simple! There must be another answer…
Sex-related genes ultimately turn on hormones in specifics areas on the body, and reception of those hormones by cells throughout the body. Is this the root of “biological sex”??
“Hormonal male” means you produce ‘normal’ levels of male-associated hormones. Except some percentage of females will have higher levels of ‘male’ hormones than some percentage of males. Ditto ditto ‘female’ hormones. And…
…if you’re developing, your body may not produce enough hormones for your genetic sex. Leading you to be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally non-binary, and physically non-binary. Well, except cells have something to say about this…
Maybe cells are the answer to “biological sex”?? Right?? Cells have receptors that “hear” the signal from sex hormones. But sometimes those receptors don’t work. Like a mobile phone that’s on “do not disturb’. Call and cell, they will not answer.
What does this all mean?
It means you may be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally male/female/non-binary, with cells that may or may not hear the male/female/non-binary call, and all this leading to a body that can be male/non-binary/female.
Biological sex is complicated. Before you discriminate against someone on the basis of “biological sex” & identity, ask yourself: have you seen YOUR chromosomes? Do you know the genes of the people you love? The hormones of the people you work with? The state of their cells?
Since the answer will obviously be no, please be kind, respect people’s right to tell you who they are, and remember that you don’t have all the answers. Again: biology is complicated. Kindness and respect don’t have to be. “

Firstly, none of this is relevant to the trans debate as there is no correlation between being trans and having a DSD.

Secondly, there is a very straightforward way of determining whether someone is male or female. Has the body developed on a pathway to producing small gametes/sperm (male) or large ones/eggs (female)? This will always be able to be determined, regardless of chromosomes/genetalia/etc.

LillyPJ · 22/04/2025 20:53

@Flybee Coincidentally, I've just read of a quote by Carlo Emilio Gadda (an Italian poet apparently) who said that pronouns are 'the lice of thought' because they introduce lazy thinking.

purplepenguindancing · 22/04/2025 20:51

OhcantthInkofaname · 22/04/2025 20:41

I agree. I feel human ideals can be on a continuum. We can have some male characteristics and desires and some female characteristics and desires. It does not make us one thing.

Why do characteristics and desires have to be “male” and “female”? This makes no sense to me. So if my son is gentle and kind and patient, he’s more female, is that what you’re saying? He can’t just be a boy who is gentle and kind and patient?

Janesmom · 22/04/2025 20:49

BallerinaRadio · 22/04/2025 18:51

If you only read Mumsnet and never stepped foot outside the door you'd think the country was populated only of trans people desperately trying to force themselves into public toilets.

There's a damaging cult but not necessarily the one you think it is 🙄

Well said!

OhcantthInkofaname · 22/04/2025 20:41

I agree. I feel human ideals can be on a continuum. We can have some male characteristics and desires and some female characteristics and desires. It does not make us one thing.

Barbadosgirl · 22/04/2025 20:41

Rosie8880 · 22/04/2025 20:18

Right, but kids can be gay/ bi in same way as they can be straight at that young age?

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They are not any of those things because they are children. Only the most questionable of adults think children have a sexuality of any kind.

Barbadosgirl · 22/04/2025 20:35

Rosie8880 · 22/04/2025 20:12

I understand not needing or being asked to use pro nouns if don’t want to. But I just have a different opinion - if someone wants to be identified and this is important yo them - as he/ they or whatever, in my mind, I have zero issues with this. Same when someone gets married wanting to change from miss to mrs. But again, appreciate some may have differing views and respect this.

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Do you really think this case was funded all the way to the Supreme Court on the basis of pronoun usage?! If all these chaps wanted was for people to call them she and they were content to stay out of female prisons, toilets, refuges, female sports and all women shortlists do you really think people would spend this much time and energy on it? We have been gaslit now for years by this ridiculous ideology and have had TRAs and their handmaidens minimising and mocking our concerns and even when the highest court in the land says we were right we STILL have people telling us to stop being silly and be kind. This is not just about calling a bloke in a wig and heels “she”!!!