To find DS4 so bloody annoying

Replying out of context might be because he’s taking longer to process something. He might be trying to script words for something you said 5 mins ago and you’ve since said something else he is trying to process alongside.

I know you say you don’t think he is neurodiverse, however from everything you say, as a parent of a child with Autism and another with adhd, I wouldn’t rule it out.

That said, I think before anything else, I really think finding some support for your own mental health sounds like it might be more important. Feeling like you’re spread too thinly, not feeling on the same wave length as your DS, feeling deflated by the normal toddler stuff etc. There are loads of people/charities who you could get support from if you think that might be useful or relevant to your situation.

He isn’t. The step incident happened in July last year. The park a few weeks ago. So in context we went through the whole of August, the entire autumn and winter and then march before he charged off again. I’m not posting saying ‘my child runs off’. It’s ’my Child doesn’t answer me or show any signs of having heard me.’

So he was three and half with steps incident and last week he ran off in the park at 4.5.

This age 6 months is a huge amount of change so why the are you so hung up on the step incident a year ago?

I went with shit happens - we all alright (thank god at times ) -I'll strive to do better tommorow.

My Mum always struggled to take us out - not because we were badly behaved - we were considered extremely well behaved by others - but fear of being judged by others.

It was a definite feature of their parenting focusing on the negative - incidents from years ago dragged up again and again. I think it robbered her of a lot of joy. Actually her older two do have SEN youngest much favoured doesn't though her kids do - and she like Dsis and I encountered a lot of judgement at school gates with that - but the fear of being judged was from the off with her before problems were apparent.

Running off happens - if he wasn't listening near fire then I'd have phycially moved him - and did on similar occasions with my kids. They need reminders to stay close that age especially in exciting new environments.

Two year age gap is hard - also seem to invite comparisons which aren't fair - at least that what I found with our two and wider family with that- kids are unquie they do things in their own time and for many when there is SEN it's a marthon not a sprint - it's getting there in the end what matters.

I don't know if there are real concerns with him - but I think your perception of what he should be doing is slightly off.

Op just to add I'm getting the impression English might be your second language the reason I'm saying that is not to make a dig SAME HERE. One if the problems my cousin faced was that the translation into English made what she was saying 10 times worse to the English ear ( Hungarian amd proud :) if you do have a diffrent home language finding someone who you can talk to will help xxxxx love from me to you.

One of the issues is that it is quite personal. He can be really nasty and will say things like ‘get out of my way’ in a sort of ‘growl’ or scream at me @hoppingandhop

See I don't think this is "personal". Personal would be saying something specifically nasty about you.
I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it, but to try and help you see that his behaviour isn't personal, to help you zoom out without the emotional strain of feeling personally attacked so you can tackle it differently.

I'm not familiar with the books, so I couldn't really comment on that, only to say I don't think it sounds particularly helpful to be honest, I think the relationship with your child would come more naturally if you have a better foundation for it, saying words and expecting a textbook response from a small child who has parent specific behavioral issues is never really going to work surely?

I've got a four year old, it really can be challenging, but things like saying 'get out of my way' is perfectly normal.. they don't really have the capacity to consider how the bluntness of that makes you feel, the need to get over 'there' and you're in their way, so their solution is to tell you to move, the key thing is to not move, or to stop them in their tracks.. if you move or allow them past then you have taught them that rude bossy behaviour works, when really it should be corrected 'that's rude, if you want to get past you need to say excuse me, would you like to try again?'.

I will not tolerate my DD bossing me in any way, so I pull her up every time, we're going through the I WANT phase right now, she doesn't mean anything by it, it's just the quickest way of asking for things, I don't get mad or annoyed, but I correct her every time on that too, I never give her anything that she demands unless she rephrases her question with manners. Honestly, it is bloody exhausting, and I get sick of the sound of my own voice sometimes, but IMO it is so important to set the foundation of respect, and teaching effective consequences. Interestingly enough, her dad (we all live together) is more lax on what he tolerates and he struggles with her not listening to him quite a lot, but it is down to his 'I just want an easy life' parenting style.. he doesn't seem to realise that minimum effort equals minimum reward.

With you saying, 'what then' after saying no firmly, that is what you need to figure out, but whatever it is it needs to be effective and consistent, my biggest change last year was actually 'collecting her' if she doesn't listen, I ask her to do something, give her one more chance then I go and take her hand, I don't ever pull her, but I stand there and say 'come on we need to do x,y,z' and I won't let go of her hand until she does what I need her to.. she knows at that point she can't carry on with whatever she was doing anyway and she comes and does what I need her to, I read it somewhere and I was genuinely amazed how well it worked, now I rarely have to go and get her, as she usually comes on the first or second chance, but I never ever repeat myself three times as it defeats the purpose of what she has been taught, I was finding myself getting angry at her and frustrated and then feeling guilty, then that one tiny change eliminated all that completely.

That sounds really hard OP and you sound like you've had enough. I know you don't think it is neurodiversity but some of his behaviour does remind me of my son at that age, and he is autistic. Especially the not wanting to please you amd not coping woth being out of routine. I would try praising him for every tiny little thing he does right amd doing what PP suggests about saying 'I'm so glad you can do things that the baby can't ' . If the latter doesn't have any effect, that would make me think autism.
Even now in his teens, it would not occur to my son to do something that he doesn't want to do because it would make me or his Dad happy. His brain just doesn't work like that.

The not listening is definitely a 4 year old thing, though. That example of telling him to get away from the fire - I had that with my kid who was 6 because she was enthralled and excited and Mummy in the background was neither enthralling nor exciting. It was worse when she was 4 but I really think it's normal. My husband and I both sometimes turned to each other and said "Did I say that out loud? Am I even here?" because she was so good at tuning us out.

One tactic that I found really helpful, OP, was that if she ignored me when I spoke in a normal voice, I would sidle over to her, slide my arm around her, and squeeze her whilst whispering what I had said in her ear. She really liked that and it always made her laugh and pay attention.

He’s sometimes ok with me, especially when dad isn’t around. When he (dad) and I are both present he’s vile to me. Not because of his dad … I don’t know what it is. @hoppingandhop

This is a huge clue and you need to dig into the possibilities. I'm not trying to blame your husband but I think you need to look at the dynamics when your husband is around.

Your ds is communicating to you in code. You need to stop taking it personally and work out what he's communicating.

Your son is vile to you and not your husband. This could be because he actually feels safer taking out how he's feeling on you.

How does your DH react if ds is awful to him? Why isn't ds vile to DH? There must be a reason.

Now what could ds be taking out on you? Is it frustration, anxiety, fear?

Is he getting even less attention when DH is around?

Does dh cause him stress in any way, either intentionally or unintentionally eg wind him up, ignore him, talk to the baby more etc
Does dh change the routine for ds

The best way to work out whats going on and how to help it stop is to find where it's not happening and ask yourself what's the difference.

Excellent yes I know was checking to see if you were reading my posts. I know what I wrote was difficult to read. Listen to me you have got time to make this right you seem like a good person who is tired sad and if I'm honest insecure about your attachment. Please if you can reach out for mental health support for yourself. If you are unable to fully parent reach out to your community to help. Find one friend who you can call or message anytime. I was this person for my cousin but it was to late to really help I bitterly bitterly regret it. If you saw in my post I love and respect my cousin but we did not understand how bad post natel depression could be. Come to mumsnet make a post rant rave this sisterhood is here but please don't put an adult burden on a child, they owe you nothing and at 3 years old they can give you nothing.

I’m sorry you’re struggling, your little boy’s behaviour sounds v v much like a family member’s child who was eventually diagnosed with auditory processing disorder. Maybe have a google and see if that might fit. There is a world of difference between not doing as you’re told and not even seeming to register the telling and I think it’s hard for people to get unless they’ve seen it in action.

He's runoff twice in a year and you're painting him as the worst child ever.

Have you tried too many strategies, so much that he doesn't know whether he's coming or going?

I'd strip back to basics. Poor behaviour is a timeout. If you're out you threaten to go home once, then go home.

Oops thought I was responding to the op !! Apologies

Just because nursery doesn’t have any concerns, I wouldn’t rule out ND.

Nursery didn’t have concerns with my DD, nor did school.

I made a list on my phone of all the behaviours that concerned me - not individually, but as a bigger picture - e.g. messy handwriting, always losing things, touching things she wasn’t supposed to, struggling socially. I then printed it off and showed it to the teacher. Initially she didn’t think for a second she could be ND, but once she stated to watch her closely she noticed things too. She was 10 by this point.

ND kids don’t come with waving a big flag. Sometimes it takes a while to unpick their behaviour.

Philippa Perry (pschyologist) is excellent on parenting - if you can't face reading yet another book, search for interviews with her on podcasts like the Scummy Mummies. When my kids were little, I sometimes found changing one small thing was less daunting than trying to overhaul my whole approach. Some tips I got from Philippa Perry were:

• Making eye contact and actually smiling at them - it's so easy not to do either of these things when life is distracting and busy.
• Always acting as though you are happy to see them in the morning or when you have been apart: 'Oh, hello!' 'Good morning! How are you?' - again with smiles and eye contact.
• Start every day fresh - so you act pleased to see them even if yesterday was a nightmare.

I still do these small things now my kids are teenagers - and I also use these strategies as a high school teacher. At the start of every lesson, and every time I see kids I teach on the corridor, I act like I'm pleased to see them and vocalise that - 'good morning, nice to see you!' etc. I think I must look demented sometimes, but over time it really really works. ESPECIALLY with the disruptive kids. I know you weren't looking for advice, but in the exhausted and sad place you are in, maybe just some tiny tweaks could lead to positive changes.

You’ve misquoted this as me saying it but it was the Op 😊😉

Obviously he's picked up on the fact he's not liked and has adjusted his behaviour accordingly.
He's getting your attention the only way he knows how ,by being difficult and running off .
He's not able to understand his behaviour leads to you giving him negative attention, because as far as he is concerned any attention is good attention
Poor little mite

When you say he’s not listening - do you change how you’re explaining it to him?
e.g. you said he didn’t pay attention to you when you were repeatedly telling him to stay away from the fire. Did you get down on his level and explain “Darling, the fire is extremely hot and dangerous. If you get near to it you will give yourself a very horrible burn. That will hurt a lot. It would be really awful to get burnt wouldn’t it. So you need to put a good amount of space between yourself and the fire.” And then add something less intense so that it has time to sink in and he knows you are there with him supporting him, acting in his best interests “I do think fire has a lot of lovely colours though. What do you notice about the fire? I’d love it if we could hold hands and watch the fire together.”

You go on an in person course and ask for outside help, I think that’s the next step. Asking for help from qualified professionals isn’t a sign of failure and could make a world of difference. Plus if he does need to be assessed for ADHD it’s likely you’ll need to do some of these courses first anyway before they will take you seriously.

I am sorry but i dont believe healthy 4yr old would never listen to the point you cant have a short conversation about something he likes.

i would look further and go for some professional help as there might be something else