To find DS4 so bloody annoying

Why are you so averse to getting an expert involved via your GP/ social services/ sure start/ equivalent in your area?

No. It is her. She's ignoring helpful suggestions and just keeps replying negatively to people basically saying nothing works.

It actually is her. All she needs to do is change her mindset and change the way she's parenting him. Clearly their not speaking the same language and she needs to learn his language instead of being such a negative nellie

I think this phase will pass.
The only thing I learned about whining though, which does make my head explode, is that you say to them very calmly "Mummy can't understand when you use that voice, if you use your normal voice I can understand and help you"

And they stop whining. It works. you just have to remember to say it.

Ignore the people on here telling you it's all on you, it isn't. He may have behavioural issues but also, he may just be an arsehole. Some kids are. Of course it's you and your immediate family's responsibility to correct unhelpful or negative habits but don't beat yourself up. Do get some support though so you can be super consistent with boundaries. If you feel exhausted it won't help with maintaining them and it becomes a vicious circle, so maybe that's the place to start?

This sounds like a super shitty space to be in so I hope you all manage to get to a better way of functioning.

And find a safe space to vent, every parent is allowed to have days where they don't like their children!

Keep talking to him, even when he doesnt respond. Dont ask him questions because then youre opening the situation up for him to change it either by shouting or not reacting. Present him with clear facts 'its dangerous to run off you know that, Ive told you before. Now we cannot go to the park/feed the ducks etc because youve shown me that I cant trust you wont run off again, and that wouldnt be safe, so instead we're going to go home' Make sure there is a direct and immediate consequence to his actions - take away a biscuit, dont go somewhere fun etc, and communicate it to him in a way that he knows it was his actions that caused it. Also make sure you tell him how to behave next time so that he can go to the park, stay at a friends house etc - 'next time you need to stay holding my hand the whole way from the bus, until I tell you you're safe to let go, and then we get to stay and have fun'. If its something boring like the food shop, then build in a small treat immediatly after - a small snack, go on the swings, a sticker etc. He'll rebel to begin with, but stick at it, lots of deep breaths before you speak!

I also think youre comparing him to a 1 year old, who may well end up behaving exactly the same way, and even though youre doing it subconsciously, he can probably feel it in your subconcious tiny facial expressions, actions etc. So work on not comparing them, and stop wishing he wasnt there (even though I know its hard when theyre pushing allll the buttons!) I know it wont be immediate, but when those thoughts come up, counter them with 'this soon shall pass', because it most likely will. It just sucks in the meantime

Would you consider approaching your local children centre for a family worker, I skimmed through your responses, sorry if already tried or suggested.

There is literally nothing that I haven’t tried to do. A relationship is two way and if DS doesn’t want the relationship then I’m limited in what I can do. I can’t make him listen to me

What. The. Actual. Hell??

This is a 4 year old Op? Your 4 year old? And not a 36 year old cousin three times removed that you’re talking about here?

Yes, or cut costs and budget so you can afford some counseling. I don’t understand why you’ve made this post — you say you don’t want advice, say you can’t do anything more than you’ve done, and seem to want everyone to agree with you that your small child is a horrible problem that can’t be solved. Honestly, it defies understanding.

Being fed up or disliking your kid is normal, but the tone of your posts and the way you talk about him as if you hate him and resent him is NOT normal.

This is really sad. I agree with other posters that you need to speak to a professional such as a gp. I have a four year old ds and this is pretty normal behaviour for a four year old, it is not easy at times and a lot of 4 year olds don’t listen. They are too little to follow instructions consistently or be aware of safety . I don’t want to come across as being judgemental, what you are saying does not sound normal, that you wish you didn’t have him. Please seek support from a gp or health visitor.

School will improve things a great deal op I suspect

Why won't you make the effort to go on a parenting course?

How can you say that???! You're the adult here. Your son is still very young and 4 year olds can be naughty. You are not "limited in what you can do"!! You need to triple, quadruple your efforts. Your little boy senses that you don't like him. Imagine how that must feel? You brought this child into the world - you are responsible for his happiness.

What are you going to do when much-loved sibling starts acting up too? Go off her as well?

Does his dad like the poor wee soul?!

I agree with all of this. I find OP’s posts pretty disturbing, and I have a 3.5 year old who is very spirited and challenging and twin 18 month olds.

Please seek help for yourself — as I said earlier in this thread, your son really doesn’t deserve this.

You say he's ok at nursery? Have a chat with them about how they manage behaviour and see if you can implement the same at home

Sensible. OP is the bottom of your triangle steady? Are you well , are you sleeping and eating OK? My 4 year old was quite frankly unbearable and no he wasn't " masking"

She puts the baby in a baby carrier. Or they don't go down those particular steps. It's the sort of thing I'd expect the parent of a baby and a toddler to have considered, to be honest.

Because she needs to realise that she is blaming her four year old for behaving like a four year old, and that it's her behaviour that needs to change.

I agree it should go without saying, but it clearly needs pointing out to the OP, doesn't it?

I can honestly say that every child refuses to hold their parent's hand at some point and that they ignore their parents at some points. Which is specifically what she and I were both referring to in what you have quoted.

I recommend sitting with him when he is asleep and seeing how angelic he looks. Do things like hold his hand up against yours and notice how tiny it looks. He seems big because you've got a baby, but he is just a baby too.

I thought mine might have ADHD but as things improve I'm much less convinced.

Hi @hoppingandhop
This sounds really tough and am sorry you’re going through this.

Lots of advice on this thread for you to sift through.

My one go to piece of advice that has worked for me is one to one time interacting in a way that HE really loves AT HIS LEVEL and not a way you want it to be.

So if you think he should like the swings and slides but that’s not always his thing - don’t do that as your special together time. If he loves messy finger painting - that’s what you do. You’re finding his Love Language - the thing that makes him feel loved and special. Don’t do this activity in a supervising him way - but do it with him, being silly, on his level, laughing with him. Even if you’re pretending and you hate it. Really try. If you do this once a week or so, without the baby and really push through, it will help his behaviour or help him connect with you.

also if you’re really struggling, and I did this with my DC when at my lowest ebb, I would imagine something happening to them. Like they’ve gone missing or they’re injured, poorly, taken away…. Really visualise this feeling and see how you feel and if some positive feeling washes over you. I did this when my DC were young and I was on my own night after night. I’d make sure they were safe and then sit and imagine my life without them and how I’d feel if something awful happened. I would then be filled with love and overwhelming relief and gratitude for them and this would help me get through a tough time.

In my experience 2 - 4 yo boys can be quite exhausting but do seem to get through it.

Good luck @hoppingandhop x

You say he's ok at nursery? Have a chat with them about how they manage behaviour and see if you can implement the same at home. This is what worked with my younger child who tried hard to push every boundary we had in place.

The other thing was working as a team - me and DH. It sounds like your DH isn't very involved; is it possible get him more involved and be united in holding agreed boundaries?

Lastly, try not to sweat the small stuff. I know how draining it is holding firm against a child. So we didn't argue when my youngest wanted to wear a tshirt in winter etc, we just picked up a coat for them. But something like licking (or in our case a brief period of biting) had a very firm response. It's hopefully a short period in their development, and ours is now an absolutely wonderful young adult. Exhausting though it was, it was worth putting the effort in when we did.

I feel the same as you about my eldest OP! All I can say is that he's nearly 5 now and I am seeing a bit of light at the end of the tunnel. Learning to read seems to have been quite helpful, are you working on that?

My younger one is now entering the years of doom, I think it's just 3-5 to be honest! In my house at least. I think it is particularly hard for the first born though when the baby comes along.

I also think boys tend to be loud and rough and as a mum I find it a bit annoying, but my son can be SO lovely and those times are increasing. Stick with it and take deep breaths.

I would lay my money on additional needs and the behaviour is coming from
anxiety/overwhelm. The fact that he’s worse when there’s two of you parenting at once is a giveaway; two people talking at you and expecting things is overwhelming.
Edit: I have a child with learning difficulties and he behaves like your son does.
Also, I don’t want to kick you when you’re down, because I can see this thread has been rough, but please don’t casually throw in having PTSD. PTSD is life changing and life altering, it occurs after significant trauma, takes a fair while to develop and you would absolutely know if you had it, your life would never be the same. It’s absolutely not the same as having anxiety.