To find DS4 so bloody annoying

My son's nursery and first teacher didn't pick up on anything. In fact they waved away the concerns I tried to raise and told me I worried too much. He's 14 now and in a special school!

Seriously? He is NOT there to make you feel good! Did you have him to love you, or so that you could love him? He’s a tiny child, but you expect him to respond to you like an adult - you expect him to meet you halfway but he’s not capable of that because he’s far far too little. Of course he wants a relationship with you, you’re his mummy! The giggling is him trying to get you to engage in play and joking around - it’s not appropriate for the context, granted, but it’s him trying to connect with you.

It sounds like the issue is your own feelings toward your son, not your son’s normal annoying toddler behaviour. I would suggest seeing if you can work through these feelings with a therapist — having small children is exhausting, I know, and children aged 3-4 can be horrendously annoying, but you suggest you don’t love your child. That just isn’t down to his normal behaviour.

Perhaps you have some unprocessed trauma or other emotional hang ups that are causing you to focus all your love and attention on baby 2, a girl, and turn away from your elder boy. Whatever it is, you owe it to yourself but especially to your child to work it out. It’s terribly sad, but he does deserve better.

i missed this as our posts crossed ..…..Yes to both. He’s fine at nursery - seems to enjoy it. He’s sometimes ok with me, especially when dad isn’t around. When he (dad) and I are both present he’s vile to me. Not because of his dad … I don’t know what it is..

To me this reads as if your DS knows well you don’t like him and when his dad is there too, he sees this as even less attention for him. How does your DH react when your DS is vile to you. How is your relationship with your DH - is it positive and loving in front of your DS >

Could your DH take your DS swimming or something each weekend, just the two of them so that your DS could have a happy outlet ?

you should have hold his hand if you couldn’t hold his hand in dangerous situations you shouldn’t have gone there. There are a lot of more manageable places.
you are his parent - you should plan and be prepared, he is just 4 y.o.
By the way if he is the oldest , your second child might surprise you yet.

I think you need to look into additional needs too. He sounds as though he is neuro divergent in some way. I would look into both autism and ADHD.

It's scary. I didn't like thinking about it. But even reading up on the conditions and management techniques will help even if he isn't. Look especially at PDA.

Remember as well that Easter is going to be a difficult time for little kids. Sugar can wreak havoc on their system, and they would have been out of routine. So this weekend might have been really challenging, but try and get back into a routine and reconnect with your child in positive ways. Getting out to the park with the baby in a carrier or buggy might allow for some time to blow off steam with 1 on 1 supervision and attention?

Yes, at 4 you use reins if he doesn't come when he's called. You practise it, and you always have the reins with you, and you remind him each outing that if he doesn't come when he's called then he'll have to be on reins.

You need to think about practical solutions and try to take the behaviour less personally. I also find this hard, but that isn't my children's fault. They are learning and so am I.

The thing is - and this is the hard bit to swallow - it could take you years to make notable progress.

And that's why you feel you're not getting anywhere and feel defeated. You sort of have to trust the process. Be consistent for a year and see where you get to. You will get hostility at first and you need to show your son that despite this you'll still turn up for him.

Can you access therapy or counseling for yourself? As having a safe space you can offload might be helpful too.

He sounds a lot like my DS was at that age. He turned out to be autistic and is also awaiting ADHD assessment.

He drove me fucking bananas and just reading that post really reminded me of how stressful it was at the time.

However he did chill out a lot as he got older. Hang in there. And start the ball rolling on having him assessed for ASD/ADHD!

But you can’t turn back time so you need a solution.
At 4 he needs to hold a hand. Maybe get reins? Hold my hand or you will wear these reins. Hold my hand. Hold my hand. Baby or not. Is there a chance he is acting out because of the baby?

If he screams it’s a firm NO. You stop in your tracks and hold his hand. NO. If he acts up you tell him No, every time. Regardless of the baby. I know this is hard, I have 4 and two are 2 and under.
Same with the licking, No. Take him aside and tell him it can’t happen. No dramatics, just No. Don’t give him a het up reaction he prob wants.
Some kids are just harder work than others, you have to be on at them more.

Some questions you’re not answering - how is your DS with his Dad, his grandparents. Etc ? What’s his behaviour like at nursery/school ? Have you spoken school/nursery to see if they suspect additional needs ?

What you are doing up to now is clearly not working - both yourself and your DS need professional help.

Why does it matter if he bangs the door? He’s not going to break it, is he? With my DS, if he’s in a banging sort of mood, I say “let’s get your drum” so he has a better alternative to make some noise. He’s giggling because it’s just a game - you seem to think he’s mocking you but he literally does not have the cognitive capacity to do that yet. He only just about grasps that you have your own mind at all.

You are the parent here. Stop taking his behaviour personally. You grab his hand and you hold on, even when he wriggles and thrashes, and you say on repeat calmly “you have to hold hands because I don’t want you to hurt yourself”. You say “we can’t move from here until you’re ready, but we can wait until you are”. And you stick to it, every single time. Then when he does do it, you say “I really like holding hands with you”.

We all have difficult times with our children. I would recommend reading some parenting books such as No Bad Kids (short and useful real life examples, as well as child psychology based explanations).

It's a really hard situation to hear about but truly your son just needs your love and understanding more than anything. Kids test boundaries and they have big emotions they struggle to deal with, but it's up to us to teach them how to react appropriately through our example and explanations.

He's your oldest child by the sounds of it, so everything with him will be harder. You've already learned how to parent younger ages from him, so of course you will find your younger child more manageable, but that doesn't mean your not a great parent to your son, as well, still.

Is there a chance that he's neurodiverse? Kids often do weird things but usually grow out of it. I'm not trying to over diagnose but I have special kids, myself, and the key is they don't grow out of it! The classic of 'you wouldn't put your hand in the fire'....oh yes, they would! Then they'll probably do it tomorrow. You sound worn down.

I really feel for you because you sound as if you’re at the end of your tether.
It really isn’t helpful from the posters saying you clearly don’t like your child. I imagine you love him dearly, you just don’t like his negative behaviour.
Does he go to nursery? Is his dad on the scene?

I honestly do recognise I’ve caused a lot of it unintentionally but when you try to put it right and can’t it makes you feel so helpless.

It's so important that you realise you are NOT helpless. You are the one with the power to change the situation, not your son. You need help to change your parenting strategies, which is absolutely fine as long as you work hard to get that help. Stop telling yourself you are helpless.

You sound exasperated but I don’t think that behaviour sounds particularly unusual. Instead of shouting or demanding you should be anticipating behaviours and holding his hand and setting expectations. Ignore the growling and pushback. Just keep setting expectations and physically directing where and what you want him to do. Praise, praise, praise, love, cuddle, kiss, tickle and praise some more.

Where is your husband in this? You’ve had two children. Where is his input into his son’s development?

Parenting is a long game and you clearly care and want to put it right. You're a good mum doing her best right now. I feel like you're worried he's going to turn out to be an awful human being and his behaviour will never improve - but remember a 4yo saying this something not the same as an adult saying it.

Fear is behind so many of our behaviours as adults and as children.

What are you scared of when it comes to your son?

What's he scared of?

Your sweet boy is hurting. An angry 4yo is saying "I need help".

What do you need in order to love him unconditionally?

Well yes but if they don’t listen to a clear ‘hold my hand’ then it’s a bit hard to know what to do. Have them on reins until they are 5, 6, 7? Not leave the house? Obviously I’m being facetious but it’s how it is.

But that's the reality of parenting! Parents constantly have to problem-solve around their children. It's completely normal, not a special problem only you have and none of the rest of us can possibly understand.

If he doesn't listen to 'hold my hand', you carry him or, yes, have him attached to toddler reins. You certainly don't let him go down dangerous stairs while you carry a baby so that you don't have any free hands.

If you are unable to accept any criticism of your parenting, you are going to really struggle to improve your relationship with your child. That will damage you and him.

I would recommend booking onto a parenting course.