To find DS4 so bloody annoying

Sounds very like my son who has just been diagnosed as autistic and they recommended an adhd assessment when he's old enough. Nursery would swear on their lives that nothing is amiss either. My son needs strict boundaries which are very clear. If he runs off he knows that the activity is over. If we need to be somewhere and he messes then it's in the buggy he goes. Some days are better than others but you have to not take it personally, he's not doing it on purpose.

Hi @hoppingandhop
there are a few things going on that could contribute to you feeling like this.

Firstly though, if you’re in a situation where you cannot immediately prevent your little boy from running off, altering how you go about things will keep you all safe.
So reins yes - he’s only 4 so reins are totally appropriate, especially if you have a baby to look after at the same time. You’re the responsible adult for both of your children and you know how to keep them safe. A baby carrier might be easier, so you are hands free for your son.

Second, do you think you could have postnatal depression? Have you spoken to a health visitor about your little boy and how you struggle to connect with him and how he behaves - which is kind of typical for a 4 yr old but which can wear down a saint when you have a new baby too? Do you go to any mum groups? Chatting stuff over with other mums and where you little boy can play with other children while you have a cup of tea might be nice once a week.

Do you have family support? So you can spend more time with your son, playing and having fun- giving yourself a break from the baby too?

I think one of the issues is that you 've not fully thought through the logistics of now having 2 small children rather than one. Neither can be left to their own devices as they're too small. So you need to think through everything a few steps ahead of them. So if you are out with DS and baby then you can't "hold" baby as then you can't control DS (by holding his hand etc). SO baby in sling/backpack so you have your hands free to hold DS. Or baby in buggy and DS on a long strap (rather than reins). WHen I had 2 under 2 just leaving the house was a long process. DD1 in the sitting room behind stair gate, DD2 in her baby chair in hall whilst I took the buggy down the front steps, DD2 into buggy, finally DD1 into buggy etc etc. Everything has to be thought through like that because you can't rely on either to stay put. It was a huge shock to go from one to two and realise the amount of thinking through/advance planning needed for even the simplest of tasks.

Your getting some harsh replies here, but can I ask did you have any PND or anything after his birth? Do you feel you bonded well when he was a baby but his behaviour has been the pain point for finding your relationship difficult? Or have you always felt different towards him to your younger baby?

You don't need to answer these questions to me, your getting some heat already and I'd understand entirely depending on your answer why you wouldn't post it online. But if its possible your bond was disrupted by PND and his behaviour is actually making that bond harder to keep hold of.
If you deep down have got that bond, and it is his behaviour, if you have tried everything standard with discipline then please contact your local health visitor before he hits 5. Once he's into school you'll struggle to get any support from anywhere. Does he have any particular interests that you could particularly focus on with him?

As a side note, you can also Google the Lets Talk service about some counselling, they do a personal assessment then offer different types for therapy. Are you doing anything for yourself, a hobby, space to go for a walk etc. how are you regulating your own emotions?

Lastly, don't be afraid to use reins in public even if he is 5, or 6. Your keeping him safe and thats the priority, don't worry about what any other person thinks and if he doesn't like them he's old enough to begin to learn to lose them he must listen and be safe. You can buy some really sturdy ones for escapies.

CBG - what I was taught in teacher training: Catch them Being Good. Try to praise and reward him frequently when he's not doing anything irritating, even if it’s just how quietly he's sitting while watching tv, or how he's followed a simple instruction like "Come and eat your dinner now".

Well first of all it's a phase he us going through so it won't last forever.
However it's still bloody annoying when you are living through it.
I've not read all the replies so I may say opposite to people are repreat whst they've said.
Everytime he licks I would say a firm' No' pick him up and remove him from the room for a short while. I would have a neutral face expression so he is not getting a reaction from you. After a short while let him back in. If he does i again repeat, this time lea ing him a bit longer. He is not a little toddler, he can understand he has to change his behaviour.
Actually you could do similar for all the things. Pelting off at the park, you return home etc. It puts you out in the short term but he will learn.
Honestly it will get better and this stage doesn't last for ever
What you will be doing is disciplining him and putting boundaries in place.
Discipline is not a dirty word it's just teaching him what he can and cannot do.

Good luck. Be a strong, firm, loving mum and it will reap you rewards as they get older.

Hi OP. I just wanted to come on and give you a big hug, tell you that it can be fucking shit sometimes being a parent, it's hard, and sometimes no matter what you do or try, it doesn't go right and it's not your fault.
We can try and do absolutely everything possible to be the best parent possible and our kids can still be dicks. Especially at that age.
I have a DD5 that I struggled similarly with when younger. She was the golden child at nursery, and is at school too, and can be so well behaved. But she struggles to listen, gets easily distracted and this leads to the not listening, getting told off, and I really believe this affects her a lot. So then there comes the emotions - shouting, screaming, she really struggles to regulate herself. Only at home though or with me, never at school.
I just wondered if you considered ADHD in your child? Does he struggle with transitions? My DD is going to be assessed. He sounds similar with some things. I bet he thrives from the routine at nursery and that's possibly why he's fine there.

Anyway, sending a huge hug and it's ok to feel how you feel. Parenting doesn't come with a manual and it sounds like you're doing your best. The fact you feel guilty for feeling this way shows you are a good mum too.
I always felt like nobody else ever really "gets it" and the stuff that works for other kids never worked for mine. Your experience is valid.

There are mothers all over the world getting their nervous systems fried every day, especially with two little children. Then often told its their fault. One big driver is that we aren't biologically wired to parent in nuclear families. Mother has to take one for the team.

Not sure if that is helpful op. It helps me. I've had it tough as a single mother to two neuro diverse boys (diagnosed late as not totally obvious). Being annoyed and irritated isn't because you are bad or or unloving - it's an automatic reaction from our survival mechanisms.

I could never understand how a human being is supposed to absorb the too-muchness of it all without cracking or going insane. It would be unlawful in a place of work.

I'm not expecting things to change, so I've put on my stoic hat and try to rise above it. I suppose it's a kind of acceptence.

No and I don’t plan to. But I am educated, I can and do read, I have tried various strategies and none of them really connect us very well. All I can do is try but relationships are two way. I can offer but ultimately if DS doesn’t respond then that ends there.

Fucking hell. You are beyond help. Your poor, poor son.

Sounds like my ds at that age. He was a real daredevil. Grew out of it though.

4 year olds are difficult all that sounds normal behaviour.
It sounds as though you have a baby and that you prefer being a parent to the baby. I can understand that as babies are easier than 3/4 year olds that are trying to assert their independence.
It also sounds as though your child is picking up on your preference and acting up to get your attention. I know it's hard but I think you need to try and give him some 1 to 1 attention and make him feel valued. Even if at the moment you don't like him try and pretend you do

You certainly aren't the only parent who is really strung out at the end of the Easter holidays. But bloody hell, listen to yourself. "A relationship is two way" - er, no, a parent/child relationship is decidedly one way for a very long time. Your son has no idea how much you do for him and is hardly going to thank you for it, because he's 4. You're sitting here trying to paint yourself as the victim of a young child's behaviour, and you've "tried everything". Maybe try changing your attitude to your child to have more empathy with him and less self pity.

She clearly doesn't know to hold his hand. She wasn't holding his hand on steps she described as dangerous. And a child can't let go of your hand if you are holding onto them, which sensible parents do because they know there's a high chance their child will try to let go and bolt off, because that's what small children do.

My son is nearly 4 and he can be annoying, mainly when he repeats “mummy mummy mummy” very loudly to get my attention and then doesn’t say anything. He does other annoying 4 year old things, and I can relate on the bloody whining, but I just put it down to age as he wasn’t like this a year ago, I’m assuming he’ll grow out of it. But I definitely don’t wish I didn’t have him, he can be super funny and sweet. My only other child is 4 months old, so she’s easier in some waysc harder in others.

I don’t think it’s inherently bad to find your kids annoying sometimes, we’re all human, we have bad and good days, and young children can be stressful, but if you’re feeling that you literally don’t want him, it might be time to speak to a specialist for you and for him, whether that be a health visitor or your GP, as if he starts to be able to see you feel this way it could cause a lot of distress for him.

Op I think posters will try to convince you that he has some SN but some kids are just like that without a reason.
I clearly remember truly hating my nephews at that age. They were 3 and 4 and were just feral.
My SIL and her dh were very gentle parents but firm and it didn’t help. They were just out of control really and we stopped having them over and just visited them instead. If they trashed their own house or behaved horribly we could just leave.
Im certain Mn would have diagnosed them with everything under the sun.
I clearly remember one day PIL smacked one of them after some truly horrific behaviour and that seemed to have worked. Even SIL at that point gave up.
oddly enough when they both turned 9/10 they settled down and turned out to be such lovely young teens and young men today. You would never have thought that at age 3/4.

All these things sound normal for an age 4 boy.
This is my son, turned out he has adhd. He is the most amazing kid but is really, really hard work. It's like parenting 4 kids at once. Your son might just be attention seeking too becuase of the baby.
Boys are hard work, their energy levels are insane. I havent worn heels for ten years, trainers on ready for a quick dash to save them from themselves at any time.
They get super dirty, playingbin the dirt and with muf and sticks. I often get accidently whacked by a ball or stick.

I have a child that reacts very similarly to yours (and then some) and it's been so hard at times so I'm sending you solidarity.

I've noticed you seem worried about judgement of your own parenting. All those people shouting at you to get him back up the stairs. It's shaming.

And you also seem worried things are only going to get worse between you.

Fuck what other people think - what's important is the relationship between you and your son. The effort can feel gargantuan I know.

There used to be some places near me that offered free support groups for parents of young children so maybe you could look into that if counseling is out of reach.

Or look at hand in hand parenting where fellow parents will hear you offload.

And what is she supposed to do when he lets go and bolts off? Of course she knows to hold his hand ffs but it’s impossible hold in a baby while another’s doing all they can to escape.

You’re getting some shit responses here. Probably from people who haven’t had a small child for 40+ years.

I think you need to be strict with him. Tell him do not run off, hold my hand or we are leaving.

Have you been on parenting courses? If not, it's not correct that there's literally nothing that you haven't tried to do.

He's four and you're his mummy; of COURSE he wants a relationship with you. Stop trying to focus on making him listen to you- that won't come until your relationship is significantly better. Instead, prioritise listening to him.

He is a unique human being who you get to help shape into an adult, and that is such a privilege, and a huge responsibility.

Get reins for him. He wears them until he can be trusted

Sorry, I'm confused by this. Both of my children have a habit of getting distracted and running off so I just keep hold of their hands near anything dangerous? Ones deaf too so no option of telling him to come back if he's not looking at me. If for any reason keeping hold of their hands wasn't an option I'd absolutely use reins for as long as needed.

I understand being cross because you were scared in the moment (and everybody drops the ball occasionally). But you're framing this like it's his fault he wasn't being supervised properly. Like I said, every parent makes mistakes like this and I'm not saying you should beat yourself up about it, but you can't shift the blame onto him for it... 4 year olds aren't supposed to be make the right choice every time. They're still learning impulse control and their ability to understand risk isn't the same as an adults.