To find DS4 so bloody annoying

You have had some really harsh responses but I think it's because people are feeling quite sad for your little boy. I'm sure it's a horrible way for you to feel, but it must be awful for him, because he will be able to sense it.
Some children really are just a lot more "work" to care for than others, one of mine was a runner too. I had to set very clear expectations every single time, "you are going to walk beside me or we will need to get back in the car" and then follow through on that. Things like knocking on the door, if he doesn't stop, you need to physically stop him.
It really does sound like you need some extra support like a parenting course so that you can help him the best way that you can, not because you aren't good parent but just because they might have some different strategies that you haven't yet tried. You are his Mum, so you have to do whatever it takes to fix the relationship.

Hi OP this sounds really hard but I think you need to reframe it. He's 4 and using his very 4 y.o. skills to tell you how he's feeling. You are using your adult skills to interpret this. Can i recommend you read this The Book You Wish Your Parents had Read by Phillipa Perry You might find it useful

I often wake up full of purpose and determination to put it right but other days I’m just drained.

I do remember days like that - often needed time and DH to bounce ideas off to think though what I could change to make the days easier - and sometimes the plans didn't work and even when they did had to implement every day even when tired as if didn't they'd be resistance next day when we tried to go back.

Count downs - daily routins to get out the house - going out at weekends if just for a walk otherwise weekdays be harder to get out the door.

It never occured to me not to try though - even on the really bad days so I would get checked for pnd - as there are treatments that could help.

What helped me was I talked to other parents on here and in RL and tried their suggestions. Behavior charts were a non starter made everything worse with DS but god people kept pushing them at us as if they were some sort of miracle but other suggestions did work and did make life bit easier.

My son who is 5 does all of the things you listed and he has ADHD, autism and a learning delay. Not saying your son does but might be worth looking into, also get his hearing checked.

@hoppingandhop argh i feel for you as it can be so difficult parenting a highly active child as well as a baby so don’t beat your self up too much.

I guess a parent will always love their child but there are times when we find it difficult to like them when they are misbehaving all the time.

Is there anything that you like about him? Focus on his positives as I’m sure he has many.

Can you spend a day with just him and no other distractions? Attempt sitting on the floor together colouring, I really find it to be therapeutic and calms down children. You can bond without any mess or sugar,… also a great opportunity to talk! He may just need an opportunity to open up to you.

Good luck with it OP hopefully things improve soon

@hoppingandhop

I few things you’ve said resonate with me, so I’ll tell you a bit about my situation incase it helps…

• Consequences - positive or negative, did not work, ever. They made things worse.
• Behaviour at nursery / school was fine.
• All of the other kids started pairing off into friendship groups, but my DD was always on the periphery.
• Trips to the park / days out resulted in awful behaviour / me stressed out.
• Started to notice that my younger child was very different - could sit calmly, slept better, could hold a crayon, made friends, was happy and just generally easier.
• Would pick eldest up from nursery and after having a great day there, within half an hour there was a tantrum of some kind.
• Would be very picky about wearing certain clothes - itchy labels, seams, etc
• Couldn’t stop herself from touching certain things - e.g. when baking a cake, would stick her fingers in the mix (your son licking things sounds like sensory seeking behavior)

It was my first child, so I didn’t have a vast experience of young kids. Felt guilty for comparing her to my younger child. Asked for help / advice from professionals and they made me feel guilty for comparing my two kids. Posted on MN many times after yet another screaming match where I’d ended up in tears. Usual answer was firmer boundaries, no screen time, spend more time with her one on one.

Nothing made a difference.

I’d advise you to read up on masking, the fizzy bottle effect, PDA, ADHD.

Maybe your son is just a live wire and he’ll settle down, or maybe there’s something else going on.

My DD is now 17 and it’s obvious she’s neurodivergent - I can’t believe all the signs that were missed early on.

I was going to say look at PDA, this all seems very familiar.

OP, I really feel for you, especially with the running off in the park/downstairs/in dangerous situations. I know it’s v unfashionable, but could you get a set of reins for him so he literally can’t run away? Or one of those leads you put round their wrists to attach them to you? As for his poor behaviour, it sounds as though you need to “catch him being good”. What this means is that you absolutely ignore poor behaviour unless it’s utterly extreme, but if he does something you want him to do - pretty much anything - you praise him for it - “Oh you are walking nicely - I’m so pleased to see that..”. Absolutely anything. Children want you to take notice of them, and they want praise, so give him “good” attention. It won’t change things overnight, but it will improve things over a few weeks. And it’s much easier said than done, but it does work!

Sensory seeking and running away screams ND to me.

I found the opposite. Around 8 was when the cheek and problems stasrted after being a great wee boy.

Also maybe look up the fawning response.

Some kids do laugh when they're stressed. When they know that they're going to get told off, especially if they're acting on impulse or are behaving in a way that you think they can control but they can't because they have issues delaying gratification or can't find another way to get a need met, whether that's attention, the toilet, food, entertainment etc.

Ah, ok, I read it as DS is 4th child.

In which case yes, his behaviour does sound difficult.

With two younger siblings, though, I’d wonder if it was classic attention seeking.

My mistake, he is actually four. Sounds rough. Im finding 3.5 challenging enough….

That what I was getting.

If he's two and running off and not listening that perfectly normal behavior for 2 year olds and he should be on reins at that age no question.

Have them on reins until they are 5, 6, 7?

Erm. Yes.

Your child's safety is more important than your ego.

I get it, I have a child who bolts off, doesn't follow adult instructions, makes loud noises all the time, does inappropriate and impulsive things like kicking, pouring water from cups, tipping plates over, not able to wait for gratification, etc. He is autistic. I don't know if your son is, but kids just develop in their own way and your job as a parent is to make sure that they're safe by whatever means necessary.

My son is almost 6, we sometimes still have to use a pushchair for his safety. We sometimes have to use reigns. We have to practice playing the stop-go game every day for his safety.

I feel for you OP and you will get loads of shitty judgment from people on here jut to make you feel worse.
I had PND with DD and struggled to bond with her until she was around 1 but when I had DS when she was 4 it threw me right back BUT not with regards to DS but DD only - which I obviously felt awful about. I just found her really really annoying but at the same time felt awful she was no longer an only child. To make things worse SIL had a baby around the same time as me so DD went from being the only (slightly worshipped) child in DHs whole family to being 1 of 3
DD was actually pretty well behaved but she is a bit hyper and I found her very hard to deal with while also coping with a new born and I am sure I made mistakes.
One thing I did realise was that as far as she was concerned there was no such thing as bad attention, so ANY attention was welcome even if that was being told off.
Going from 1 to 2 is hard OP so give yourself a break.
My DC are 20 and 16 now and to be honest I think DD would ahve been happier as an only child but I can't do much about that now and I have great relationships with both of them

Hi @hoppingandhop I totally relate to this and really wanted to come on and give you some hope. My boy is the same age and displays similar behaviors. I found it quite isolating tbh as only parents with similar kids could relate and just knowing I wasn’t alone was such a relief. I have 2 like you, and my daughter is completely different and responds really well to the usual parenting strategies.

What helped us massively was following Dr Becky Kennedy who wrote good inside and has an app you can subscribe to. You don’t really need the app if you listen to her podcast and read the book, you’ll get the basic concepts and suggestions of what to do there. We did subscribe for a year after a horrendous holiday last year and needing something to just help us deal with this! Long story short what helped us was putting in some time focusing on connection with the little man. She has very clear strategies on what to do and how to do it (along with scripts). We still have struggles from time to time but overall there has been a big improvement! It possibly sounds a bit vague but have a look at her stuff if you’re interested, there’s a lot of free content out there and her Instagram page is really good. And big hand hold because I get it. You’re not a bad parent, you’re just honest and you need support x

Sounds like a tough time all round @hoppingandhop

Does anyone around you talk to you unkindly? Just wondering if your child has picked this up from another adult.

Is your youngest a girl? Sometimes girls are faster to meet milestones. My friend jokes that she thought her boy was delayed (he wasn't, her daughter was just faster)

If you've got no reserves, you are going to react in anger and frustration. That's ok, if you know this you can plan for it.

Children are designed to elicit attention and resources from parents to stay alive. He's pressing buttons because they work, his behaviour gets attention. You are going to have to start marking and encouraging other behaviours.

Is there anything in your son or relationship that is pulling on an uncomfortable thread from your own childhood? You might have to confront this with a councillor. You might want to talk to a councillor anyway, it's enormously freeing to voice your feelings without being judged. Don't feel too bad about this stuff, parenting can be both delightful and awful - often at the same time!

He sounds like a four year old. Not an easy four year old but a four year old. You can't change him, but you can knock the sharp edges off. And you sound like a parent stretched thinly.

I'm sorry you feel this way OP, 4 is a tricky age but it will get better.
I think you have to recognise however what you're asking of your little boy. He will be picking up on your feelings towards him and you're basically asking him to be nice and respectful to someone that obviously doesn't like him. Would you be nice to an adult who doesn't like you? Probably not. Also, you keep saying that 'a relationship is a 2 way street' that's true, in more grown up and adult relationships but not at 4. You're his mother, not his mate or his gf. You have to love and nurture him and take care of him no matter how he behaves.

From the title and about the 4th post, I think he’s 4.5 (but she has 2 kids).

@hoppingandhop my DC was very similar at that age, literally none of the parenting techniques that worked beautifully with my DC1 worked on their younger sibling at all. They were eventually diagnosed ASD & ADHD in secondary school with a side helping of pathological demand avoidance. At the age of 4 though, there were no indications of neurodiversity apart from a lack of awareness of danger and being 'naughty' - I faced the judgement of other parents who thought I was just a crap mum unable to discipline.
Unless you parent a child with PDA or ODD, then you really cannot understand that all the things you read in parenting books are just bollocks when you are dealing with these specific neurodiversities.
I would read up on low demand parenting, as I suspect this may be in play. Please be kind to yourself, I have been there and I am sometimes still there - it doesn't make me a shit mum, it makes me human.

Yes, he is 2 you’re right.

We did self catering butlins at this age - for years till they were older.

We came home exhausted but the kids loved it - so much to do on tap - some of which we could sit and watch them do - then they were straight back into school next week - worked well.

We had many people be snooty with us about it - but think we were adapting to the kids we got.

Lots of people saying DS is 4. He’s 2, yes, OP?