Lack of human contact causing MH crisis?

I've thought for a while the starting again from scratch thing is simply too much for a lot of people.

I agree with you. Fur those who don’t work. And usually older too.
Much harder to find activities like this when you’re already working full time. Let alone if you also need to juggle chikdren in the mix.

Plus I wouldn’t associate that with socialising, as in spending time with good friends. It’s spending time in a structured activity. A bit like work really.

Fwiw I have two young adult dcs. Theyre saying similar things. No money to go out to the pub. An increasing view that alcohol is bad (not arguing with that btw!) so Theyre choosing to not go out, even when everything is nicely organised for them and no one would have an issue if they were drinking a soft drink rather than a beer. ‘Socialising’ is online through gaming. Dating same. And that’s from two persons heavily involved in their specific sports, runs the Uni club etc…. So it’s not as if they’re stuck at home not going out.
People are getting very insular.

I think people's isolation is one of the major drivers of mental health problems.

It's not just a recent thing, it's been going on for decades, and many people don't even realize that our society is not normal because they have never lived in a community with a strong social fabric.

Other things that have affected this significantly are the car, the television, the fact that so many people have to move away from their hometown to work as adults, that people move jobs and homes so often. The move away from neighbourhood schools, lack of playing out for children. Even women going out to work, because it meant that neighbourhoods in the daytime became deserted, leaving only a few behind.

There have been studies on how strong relationships and friendships are formed, and one of the important things is really just ease of maintaining contact. If you see people regularly around the neighborhood in third spaces to have a chat (say while doing your shopping), if it takes 10 minutes rather than half an hour or more to get together, you are much more likely to see people regularly. And friendships just take a certain amount of time spent to establish, so the harder it is, the less likely it will happen. Then you move in a few years, or they do, and you need to start again - it's too much for people.

My dad told me a story yesterday, he has lived in the same small town/village for 20 years. He was walking down the street to the seniors club, and was struggling due to health issues. Someone driving by saw him, and didn't really know him but called a fellow who did. He called my mum, who called her friend who works at the hospital, who went out and picked him up. The effect of that is not just a matter of someone helping practically. It's creates a feeling that you are cared for, that people value you in your community, that you are safe there, it's more possible to be active because others look out for you and help. That's hugely positive for mental health IMO.

As an introvert, I understand why some people like the options of anonymity, but I think that despite the effort that social interaction can involve, it can still be very protective.

I think WFH is a bit of a red herring. People can have an active social life without going to a place of work. In my experience workplaces can fulfil a very basic "being around people" need but not the deeper, meaningful human connection need. (This is my experience and will depend on the workplace.)

I agree with the gist of the OP that lack of human connection is a large part of the driving force of widespread poor mental health. Other things driving this lead to a lack of meaningful social interaction (eg. working long or erraric hours) so often it still comes down to social interaction.

I'm someone who needs my own space to some extent, but I get this easily. I also, very clearly, need meaningful social connections, but this is much more obvious as it's the thing that's so hard to get.

I loved it when I was young and we'd sit up half the night talking thoughtfully. But you don't have to be young and responsibility-free, or stay up half the night - you can have these chats in the daytime in the park whilst the kids play, or over a coffee. Or even not have the chats very often, but spend time together, share humour, exchange little messages inbetween that are a form of sharing your day. But it seems like people so often forget how much this matters.

@FoxRedPuppy I'm sorry I didn't intend to minimise this, I recognise that this is a complex and highly difficult issue: it affects a number of my friends' children and there is as you say more to it than this.

But I think it's part and parcel of a wider phenomenon in which individuals have persuaded themselves that interaction with other members of their species (aside from a very small, self-selected group) are fundamentally damaging and something to avoid.

There is a very wide and complex array of reasons behind this, some political, some economic, some social. But overlaying this is a general sense of retreating into the tribe: the family, the ethnic group, the national group. You can see this very clearly in the political rhetoric of today but I think you can also see this a lot in social micro politics.

I feel like 20 years ago the world was much more outward-looking in most aspects and much more embracing of difference. Today we are encouraged to treat those we live alongside with suspicion.

This mania for extreme individuality and the fetishization of "being an introvert" is one of the outputs of this: people rushing to identify themselves as being out of reach of society and untouchable: people who are desperate to avoid social interaction and convince themselves that it is unhealthy to interact with others. I see post after post on here, both on this thread and on thousands of others, from people espousing the view that the less social contact they have, the better. The idea that its offensive and intrusive that people expect you to socialise with colleagues. The idea that people ringing your doorbell are being rude. That friends are "more drama than they are worth" or that people are "draining" and small-talk is toxic, that extroverts are all narcissists or that you can never truly trust anyone outside your immediate family. Another output of this involves people wanting to restrict all their social contact to digital only, and this certainly fuels the issue of children struggling with school, though it's probably not the only factor.

It's a complex issue which weaves in all kinds of difficult dynamics and in a lot of cases involves mental illness or anxiety, so I have deep compassion for people whom it affects. But we as a society need to stop pretending that it's normal or healthy to avoid other people. It's not, its deeply damaging and regressive and we need to tackle it.

It’s the opposite for me, I find socialising and being around people whether family/ working/ shopping really exhausting and stressful. If I could work from home and not speak to anyone for days at a time I’d be happy.
I have depression, anxiety and ocd if that makes any difference.

@Thepeopleversuswork please not disregard “school refusal” like that. EBSA is a real thing and causes immense stress and emotional distress for so many families. Many children cannot manage the changed school environment, the pressurised exam culture, the lack of down time, play etc. Schools are enable to provide environments for neurodivergent children and those with anxiety. These children want to go to school, but they can’t.

My daughter was one, she would lie outside our house wanting to go to school, but frozen in fear. She burned out. The rhetoric that children are choosing to stay off school because parents are wfh is damaging and fails to address the real issues.

I don’t think WFH is particularly the culprit here. The issue is a retreat into the family unit and away from social spaces.

Excepting people who have depression and anxiety and some with neurodiversity most people need social access.

But for many complicated reasons COVID triggered a kind of fetishization of social isolation which is profoundly damaging.

People who actively celebrate the fact they only ever interact with their spouse and children, people regarding social interaction with suspicion. You see it on here all the time with people actively celebrating the idea that their husbands provide the only source of social contact and saying friends are best avoided because they only create “drama” (whatever the hell that means). It’s incredibly limiting and deeply worrying that people like this are raising children.

No wonder children refuse school when so many parents promote the idea that social contact is hostile and unnecessary. And no wonder our political discourse is so polarized and focused on “othering” people outside of the immediate family. It really worries me.

I WFH for 4 years before covid and was done with it.

I'd just got a job in an office a month before the lockdown! Covid was atrocious for my MH and I was close to breaking point.

I eventually got a job where going in is compulsory.

For me personally, I need to feel/be needed somewhere to feel better and to be more focused. WFH all the time isn't good for me.

I don’t think MN is representative of the real world in that respect - forums generally attract a lot of homebodies by their very nature, so all the answers you get on here are generally going to be swayed towards the “home is safe” type replies.

I work in our local town and forever see people chatting or popping in and out of each others houses.

I do way better without forced human contact and interaction at all. Forcing human contact on me makes me worse. Even just working from home full time is too much and has exasperated things, I have to interact with people all bloody day when I don't really want to. I did much better only working 10h per week and only having to force contact with others for that short time, but sadly the bills don't allow for that.

I'd do even better if I were never in a position where I had to force contact and interaction with others, and only had contact and interaction when I chose to.

I fully wfh for 3 years and by the end of that it had negatively impacted my mental health without a doubt. I’ve switched to a hybrid role now and it has been much better for me, so I agree from a personal perspective.

I've said this before but I wish that there was some, ideally evidence based, advice on how best to live with loneliness and isolation for those that can't find a way to solve it. People live with all sorts of things that aren't ideal but can't be quick fixed and this is no different.

This is much the same as me. Prior to Covid when I was full time in the office, I barely spoke to my colleagues. Their office chat was irritating and I had earbuds in to block out the noise in the office as it was distracting. When we all locked down my boss insisted on a daily team catch up call, this meant I spoke way more with my colleagues. When I needed to speak to individuals, we started the call with more social chat.

This pattern has continued and I’m more familiar with them than I would have been if we hadn’t had lockdown. I mainly wfh with a few days in the office now.

It does seem to be an increasing problem. I remember the first trip to the office after lockdown. It was quite overwhelming and I had been going out to work for many years beforehand. It must be harder for those just starting out and who grew up in the texting and gaming as socialisation age.

I worry about the future of care for the elderly and disabled too. We seem to be looking more to automated/robotic systems to do these functions and currently a visit from a carer or nurse might be all the daily interaction a person gets.

Most people claiming PIP are working. I claim PIP and work full time. This idea that cutting benefits will push people to work is bollocks.

See, I’ve always found things in person difficult. I’ve done it, but it has never got easier for me. Same with phone calls. I once cried in a Deli in New York because I couldn’t work out the system and everyone else seemed to know, and I couldn’t ask as I just got told I was in the wrong queue.

I think people have rose tinted view of the past. I used to go to hairdresser and cringe trying to make conversations about going out on a Saturday (nope) going on holiday (nope- travelling but was met with weird face about countries I was visiting. I even had to try and nod and smile through awful small talk about immigrants coming and taking out jobs!

And the proposed benefit changes are going to force more people into work who are not capable of the social niceties that you are used to. People with MH and ND issues. So you will complain and get them fired.

The supermarket comments.. More and more often staff in retail don’t even muster up a hello.

It’s definitely something I see with my Gen z kids. They only use self checkouts, buy things online, train tickets on an app, mostly socialise while gaming (with occasional nights out).
They only apply for part time jobs online, and would be really anxious about walking into a cafe and asking about work.
I tried to send my youngest to get fish and chips and he didn’t want to go because he didn’t know how to ask for what he wanted! This is a kid who grew up with no car, being taken round on buses and coming to the supermarket with me because I had no one to leave him with, but since having a phone anything that is face to face communication is a cause for anxiety.
It’s sad and it worries me. I absolutely need human interaction, and hate apps and online shopping/ booking but I feel like the world increasingly treats me as awkward when I try to avoid these.

I would love to have people come over but they never want to make the effort. I’ve had a friend visit once this year.

Nobody wants to do anything. When you do go out everyone is staring at a phone.