to worry my DD might be a narcissist?

All of the behaviors you mentioned are very normal for a 4 year old. Please don't rush to pathologise her, kids are remarkably resilient. Congrats on leaving your abusive ex, you've set a great example to your daughter to not put up with abuse xxx

Even ignoring the age in this case there are plenty of psychopaths and sociopaths who live totally normal lives in our society and are not a problem at all. You will encounter them every day given the percentages. Not everyone has to be emotionally affected by things that happen and it doesn’t mean they’re bad people.

I agree with every word of this.
OP you didn’t give the context of yours and your daughter’s background, made a huge leap to her having a personality disorder and when someone asked you if you had any mental health conditions yourself, you jumped down their throat. The irony being that it was the right question to ask because you do have mental health issues (and understandably so considering what you have been through)

Ds3 had nits a couple of weeks ago (he's 7.5). When I was nitcombing him he was VERY upset at the thought of the lice dying or only the big ones being caught and leaving behind their babies on his head, all alone 🙈 He begged to just keep them and said he didn't mind if they lived in his hair forever 🤣

Compare that to a couple of years ago when he had them when he gleefully combed/squished/washed them down the drain as they came off, whilst giggling.

A child at 3/4/5 often doesnt show anywhere near the same empathy as when they're a couple of years older. Unless you're finding bits of dead cats in your garden, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

There was a dead animal washed up on a beach the other day, I took my 6yo to look at it and we took pictures! Love the pp's story of Mr Snakey.

She's very young and her brain structure is nothing at all like an adult's brain structure. Nothing you're reading far too much into this.

If you are genuinely worried about narcissistic personality disorder, you don't need to be. Children can't be diagnosed with personality disorders, because we recognise their neural pathways are still adapting and growing.

Children do not fully understand that death is permanent until at least age 7, so she probably doesn’t grasp what has happened. She also may have been trying in a clumsy way to cheer you up. My kid does this: he says he’s happy about something sad because he doesn’t like feeling like that, so he tries to laugh. It doesn’t make him a psychopath. He does it if I’m sad about something too: he experiences my sadness as scary because he doesn’t know what to do to make it better. (I lost a parent recently, so I can’t always hide my grief from him).

Is your DD the child of your abusive ex? I can completely understand being hyper vigilant to see if traits from him come out in her, but try not to. She is just a normal little girl who has been through a lot and is processing it. I hope you have support for yourself too. Take care x

I think you mean sociopath, rather than narcissist? But of course she isn’t! She sounds completely fine and normal to me. Don’t project your worries onto her.

It's a fair question to ask here on an anonymous thread. Your response sheds light on what's happening here, and enables people to give you more useful advice. As other posters have explained, the 'problem' behaviours you describe are pretty typical for a four year old - particularly one who has witnessed domestic abuse and has a mother with mental health problems and a self-confessed anxious parenting style.

The answer here could be as simple as "she found the dead mouse funny because she's been watching Tom and Jerry and thinks cats catching mice is supposed to be funny". Kids are strange and sometimes inappropriate. This whole thing could be absolutely nothing. But you're treating your daughter like she belongs in The Omen.

That's a you problem, and as a parent, there will be times in life when you need to hear that. There is absolutely no need to try and pathologise your four year old daughter with a narcissism diagnosis. Anyone with feelings will have empathy for what you've sufferered - but you can't go through life saying "I was abused, fuck off!" every time someone suggests your traumatised behaviour might be having an impact on your daughter. It's not fair on her.

If you're so good at empathising OP, how about trying to empathise with her interest and enthusiasm? She's a little girl who's curious about the world, that's a fantastic emotion to empathise with.

I find most people who claim to be empathetic have blind spots when it comes to putting themselves in other's shoes...

Sounds like you've been through a tough time. Sorry you have had to go through what you have

being withdrawn, inability to follow basic instructions, biting, hitting, tantrums, crying for no apparent reason, bedwetting, fear of me not being by her side 24/7, the list goes on.

These are normal 4 year old behaviours! Some will still happen at age 6 too for a lot of kids, and some beyond that! My 13 yr old still can't follow basic instructions!!! 😉 Ok, biting and hitting aren't great, but not too age inappropriate especially for a kid that's witnessed domestic violence and whose parents have MH problems.

Yes, she's maybe a bit more clingy than other kids as a result of trauma and it's making it hard for her to not 'be by your side', but otherwise she seems pretty normal and average.

I think you want a label to absolve yourself of finding the parenting hard, and because some of her behaviours could be related to the experiences she's been through. You might also unconsciously fear she's turning out like her dad.

But pleeeeaae, stop trying to label her. She is entirely normal. Have a look at some of the parenting boards on here and you'll find everything much older kids and teens can be selfish, uncaring, unempathic, etc.. and a lot of nursery age kids bite and hit. Seek some parenting advice from social care and some support so you can ensure you parent these behaviours effectively and don't end up with a kid with a long list of labels and in CAMHS by the time they are 11.

YABU I would probably have wanted to pick up the mouse too when I was a child, and would have loved to see it being dissected! I now have a PhD in biological science and am not a narcissist

My question wasn’t inappropriate and your answer doesn’t make me feel awkward.

I was fully expecting you to have mental health issues, that’s why I asked. It’s very concerning for a parent to be thinking that their young child has a serious personality disorder. That kind of thinking can get worse and lead to bad places.

Your child is young and has been put through trauma. They are also now living with a traumatised parent that has their own issues. It would be rare for a child not to display some concerning behaviour.

What help have you sought for your child and the abuse she has been put though? Does she have play therapy? She is so young and her brain is still developing, now is the time to push for intervention to help her process all she has been and is continuing to go though.

Wishing you both all the best.

One of my children at a similar age wanted to dig up a dead pet so they could see what they looked like. Obviously we said no. They have grown up into one of the most empathetic people I have ever met.

4yo have probably only heard of mice being described as a negative species of animal.

Add to that the developmental norm of not yet developing empathy and she probably doesn’t see the mouse as a real dead animal to feel sad over.

remember as well that cats killing mice is part of the cycle of life. Unless you’re vegetarians I doubt you get her to say how each chicken you eat is sad etc.

OP your update sheds a very different light on your question, which I thought was ridicoulas.

You've removed your daughted from the huge trauma of such a violent home. I would prioritise getting her into play therapy, while she is still young and her brain is plastic. She's been damaged by what happened, and this shows in tantrums, violence and bedwetting.

Being sadded by a dead mouse doesn't mean that she's going to end up like her father, but I think she could hugely benefit from help to overcome her traumatic start in life, and I think she needs support from someone other than you, as she may not be willing to be open with you for fearvof hurting your feelings.

That word get used a lot on here to describe a violent partner yes I agree but to describe a 4 year old child absolutely not!

That sounds really difficult .

Kids at 4 don’t usually understand that death is a permanent state. So she likely hasn’t grasped the full sorrow of the situation if you know what I mean. it’s just interesting to her.

I wouldn't laugh at a dead mouse but neither would I actually be sad about it. So neither of your reactions match mine, but I wouldn't diagnose either of you because of it.

Definitely over thinking this.

I’m sorry you’ve both been through so much OP it sounds incredibly hard. Are you safe now? How long have you been away from your ex?

I’m guessing that you’re scared she’ll be like her dad, but you’re the one she’s living with and she’ll take on so much of how you behave and think. For example in this case she had a first reaction (which might be something like surprise which kind of feels funny) and you said it was sad - she’ll be taking that in and learning over time eg that animals dying is sad.

I think this is also a classic case that if a 4 year old boy thought this was funny we’d be unbothered but with girls we sometimes expect them to be more empathetic and “softer”?

I’m so sorry to read about your experiences Op, all the more reason though why you absolutely need to steer clear of diagnosing random things for your small and very traumatised dd. I’m glad to hear that you’re having therapy. What you both need is support and time to heal from trauma…not more labels.

She's 4.5!!! You sound like my mum, who says that 'for years,' she worried I had no feelings or empathy because I didn't cry when Princess Diana died...I was 6 years old and had no idea who she was!!! 🙄🙄

You are not just overthinking, your thinking around your daughter is seriously disordered and will have a real, negative impact on her. Posting on Mumsnet is not a remedy for this serious problem.

My brother and I found a dead mouse in the garden at a similar age and dissected it 😬 he now works with children with disabilities and I have dedicated my career to charity work. No narcissism here!

That was an entirely appropriate conversation about your MH, OP, given your extraordinary strange and pathologising response to a four year old acting like a four year old.