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Why were trans threads hidden?

346 replies

ImConfusedDotComHelp · 20/04/2025 18:19

Since the ruling that biological sex matters I've been reading more and more. Every day.

To my shame, I didn't really follow the issue or consider it before. The more I read, the more horrified I am at how women who've been campaigning have been treated by society, by TRA activists, by other women and even on mumsnet hidden in a corner in sex and feminism.

JK Rowling having rape and death threats for sharing her concerns. Women being cancelled. This is an every women and every girl issue.

With the rise in toxic masculinity and misogyny in schools and society we all need to talk about this more.

Well done to those that did the talking and campaigning for the safety of all women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
FKAT · 21/04/2025 09:51

SolielMoonSky · 20/04/2025 19:13

I’m in the ROI. There’s a limit to how much I need to know about this Supreme Court thing because it doesn’t affect me. It doesn’t change anything here. I don’t need to read every single thread relating to it and there are loads atm.

Can you imagine how it would go down if a UK woman went on an Irish board discussing Irish laws and saying 'don't know why you are discussing this so much, it doesn't affect me.'

Like a sack of shite.

AnSolas · 21/04/2025 09:42

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Womens Sex Based rights?
Thats so old fashioned its peoples rights.

What happened if the SC said that the meaning of woman ment that a female can remove herself from sex based law or other people can decide she is not covered?

Do you want to cast a vote on the which law is valid in the Ireland and the UK

(Laws are listed below.)

Being in Ireland should the doctor ask all females (and males) if they have a GRC before providing pregnancy related healthcare?
Eg for a female with a possible implanted embryo and wanting an emergency contraceptive or an abortion per the 2018 act and has a GRC per the 2015 act and risking 14 years in prison.

And fyi women and men have no right to abortions in Ireland its up to the government of the day to pass laws for access.
So do men have access rights in the UK?

Can the birthing body male be charged with an unlawful abortion under the law in Ireland?
How about in the UK?

Would this be a concern in the UK hospital system as they ask everybody (males too) if they could be pregnant so why not if they have a GRC before deciding if running tests has a sex based issue?

And if a baby is born in Ireland to an unmarried/civil partnership female with a GRC who is not living with the Sperm Producer has the baby got a mother?

The UK courts said it has a mother.
The Irish law say it can have a father once the Sperm Producer produces a DNA test in court but the Irish Birthing Body has no established rights.

And fyi in 2015 Ireland voted to break parental righs to their children.

And @SolielMoonSky was asked to vote to remove the rights sections for women and mothers

So what about the peskie Birthing Bodys rights while growing the baby?
well the UK SC said sex = female = woman for the EA and an employer or other party would have to argue that that if applied to other pregnancy related laws that the word woman did not hold true with a GRC and anyway how could they tell if the individual was a "woman" or a "man"
Irish law is the gender grounds

The nice doctor with a penis in NHS Fife decided he has a right to access both cervix (neck and female only organ) if a woman asked for a woman doctor and the NHS helpfully decided that the smear test was for people with a cervix.

And why cant a male get the new "smear" test too?

Funny as fuck the Irish system opted for people with a cervix too.

It may be dull as fuck but give us a wording to describe women sorry people with a cervix in this bit of smear test legislation :

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/act/31/section/2/enacted/en/html

Because the new rights based fashion is to remove the word woman because women are people too.
And replace the word woman with "people" and sex based function words eg period products are for bleeders sorry people who menstruate not women.

But nice wording to reduce women to bleating farm animals

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/enacted/en/print
Effect of gender recognition certificate generally
18. (1) Where a gender recognition certificate is issued to a person the person’s gender shall from the date of that issue become for all purposes the preferred gender so that if the preferred gender is the male gender the person’s sex becomes that of a man, and if it is the female gender the person’s sex becomes that of a woman.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/act/31/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2
Definitions
2. In this Act—

“foetus”, in relation to a pregnancy, means an embryo or a foetus during the period of time commencing after implantation in the uterus of a woman and ending on the complete emergence of the foetus from the body of the woman;

“termination of pregnancy”, in relation to a pregnant woman, means a medical procedure which is intended to end the life of a foetus;

“woman” means a female person of any age.

Offences
23. (1) It shall be an offence for a person, by any means whatsoever, to intentionally end the life of a foetus otherwise than in accordance with the provisions of this Act.

(2) It shall be an offence for a person to prescribe, administer, supply or procure any drug, substance, instrument, apparatus or other thing knowing that it is intended to be used or employed with intent to end the life of a foetus, or being reckless as to whether it is intended to be so used or employed, otherwise than in accordance with the provisions of this Act.

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) shall not apply to a pregnant woman in respect of her own pregnancy.

(4) It shall be an offence for a person to aid, abet, counsel or procure a pregnant woman to intentionally end, or attempt to end, the life of the foetus of that pregnant woman otherwise than in accordance with the provisions of this Act.

(5) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years, or both.

(6) A prosecution for an offence under this section may be brought only by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

(7) Nothing in subsection (4) shall operate to prevent or restrict access to services lawfully carried out in a place outside the State.

And you can check the words used in the UK act.

And the Irish still have no right to abortion which may suprise some Repeal the 8thers.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#article40

3 1° The State guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate the personal rights of the citizen.

2° The State shall, in particular, by its laws protect as best it may from unjust attack and, in the case of injustice done, vindicate the life, person, good name, and property rights of every citizen.

3° Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy.

And someone did a cut and paste and edit with the GRA

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/9
General

(1)Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).

(2)Subsection (1) does not affect things done, or events occurring, before the certificate is issued; but it does operate for the interpretation of enactments passed, and instruments and other documents made, before the certificate is issued (as well as those passed or made afterwards).

(3)Subsection (1) is subject to provision made by this Act or any other enactment or any subordinate legislation.

Where a gender recognition certificate is issued to a person
the person’s gender shall from the date of that issue become for all purposes
the preferred gender
so that if the preferred gender is the male gender the person’s sex becomes that of a man,
and if it is the female gender the person’s sex becomes that of a woman.

But not here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/12
12 Parenthood

The fact that a person’s gender has become the acquired gender under this Act does not affect the status of the person as the father or mother of a child.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/section/19/enacted/en/html#sec19
Parenthood

19. The fact that a gender recognition certificate is issued to a person shall not affect the status of the person as the father or mother of a child born prior to the date of the issue of the certificate.

Ireland did not need to say sex based roles remain sex based which were mainly mens righs anyway

16 Peerages etc.

The fact that a person’s gender has become the acquired gender under this Act—

(a)does not affect the descent of any peerage or dignity or title of honour, and

(b)does not affect the devolution of any property limited (expressly or not) by a will or other instrument to devolve (as nearly as the law permits) along with any peerage or dignity or title of honour unless an intention that it should do so is expressed in the will or other instrument.

And is it sex or living in a gender when it comes to sex based reproduction roles?

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/8/section/3/enacted/en/html#sec3
(2) As between any two persons, the discriminatory grounds (and the descriptions of those grounds for the purposes of this Act) are:

(a) that one is male and the other is female (the “gender ground”),

And the words which were bad for women but ignored men..

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#article41

THE FAMILY
ARTICLE 41
2° The State, therefore, guarantees to protect the Family in its constitution and authority, as the necessary basis of social order and as indispensable to the welfare of the Nation and the State.

2 1° In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.

2° The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.

And the citizens voted to keep the provision :

https://www.referendum.ie/archive/referendum-on-the-fortieth-amendment-of-the-constitution-care-bill-2023/
You are being asked, in this referendum, if you agree with the proposal –
to delete the following section from Article 41 of the Constitution:

“2 1° In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.

2° The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.”

and
to insert the following Article after Article 42A of the Constitution:

“Care
Article 42B
The State recognises that the provision of care, by members of a family to one another by reason of the bonds that exist among them, gives to Society a support without which the common good cannot be achieved, and shall strive to support such provision.”

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#article42

CHILDREN

ARTICLE 42A
1 The State recognises and affirms the natural and imprescriptible rights of all children and shall, as far as practicable, by its laws protect and vindicate those rights.

2 1° In exceptional cases, where the parents, regardless of their marital status, fail in their duty towards their children to such extent that the safety or welfare of any of their children is likely to be prejudicially affected, the State as guardian of the common good shall, by proportionate means as provided by law, endeavour to supply the place of the parents, but always with due regard for the natural and imprescriptible rights of the child.

2° Provision shall be made by law for the adoption of any child where the parents have failed for such a period of time as may be prescribed by law in their duty towards the child and where the best interests of the child so require.

3 Provision shall be made by law for the voluntary placement for adoption and the adoption of any child.

4 1° Provision shall be made by law that in the resolution of all proceedings—

i brought by the State, as guardian of the common good, for the purpose of preventing the safety and welfare of any child from being prejudicially affected, or

ii concerning the adoption, guardianship or custody of, or access to, any child,

the best interests of the child shall be the paramount consideration.

2° Provision shall be made by law for securing, as far as practicable, that in all proceedings referred to in subsection 1° of this section in respect of any child who is capable of forming his or her own views, the views of the child shall be ascertained and given due weight having regard to the age and maturity of the child.

Equal Status Act, 2000, Section 3

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/8/section/3/enacted/en/html#sec3

Helleofabore · 21/04/2025 07:37

Totot · 21/04/2025 07:17

That’s exactly why there are topics! Those who want to read a certain topic can and those who don’t can hide the topic. I don’t want to read about the Royals, so I can hide the topic. After a pregnancy loss, I have hidden conception and pregnancy topics.

Otherwise what is the point of having topics? You might as well get everyone to post on AIBU. I believe in biological sex, but I find that a lot of the posts discussing this descend into talk of sexual assault. There are many that want to avoid this so hide the topic.

There is no need to silence people, just let people post of the appropriate board and they everyone can decide whether to read or hide the topic.

If you cannot read threads that fall into the theme AIBU then I suggest you also hide and avoid AIBU.

The posts on this thread about demanding AIBU is curated to suit the poster are the stuff AIBU is made of! It is a generalised topic thread asking AIBU about anything.

If you have serious issues with your impulse control in clicking or replying in threads you are not interested in, it is not for MNHQ to curate a board to suit your personal preferences. But this thread show just how many people think that MNHQ should indeed cater to them in this way.

Helleofabore · 21/04/2025 07:31

ruffler45 · 21/04/2025 07:18

Does anyone actually read multiple threads on the same subject each with hundreds and hundreds of comments?

Do people really have the time?

oh dear. The same way you have time to read multiple threads about anything on MN?

I am sure you thought this was a great post.

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 07:29

ruffler45 · 21/04/2025 07:18

Does anyone actually read multiple threads on the same subject each with hundreds and hundreds of comments?

Do people really have the time?

The fact that there are "hundreds and hundreds of comments" shows how important this issue is to women.

OuterSpaceCadet · 21/04/2025 07:21

Well I'm with a pp in that trans threads are "dull as fuck"...... Because I am bored sick of gender stereotyping. Both the right wing variant and the faux progressive gender ideology variant. It's all so horribly backwards and navel gazing and does absolutely nothing to trouble the patriarchal, capitalist status quo.

I wish I were privileged enough to say that this insidious men's rights movement didn't affect me or my children.

Ilovetowander · 21/04/2025 07:18

The issue is in my view more than female spaces, the ideology that you can change from male to female or female to male has had a negative impact on many young people. I am choosing my words carefully as am aware that certain words lead to posts being removed. Being able to question this ideology does not mean someone is phobic or discriminatory it is a concern for young and vulnerable individuals. It is not possible to be anything you want male and female are a given and the SC ruling makes clear what that biology takes precedent over all else.

ruffler45 · 21/04/2025 07:18

Does anyone actually read multiple threads on the same subject each with hundreds and hundreds of comments?

Do people really have the time?

Totot · 21/04/2025 07:17

ImConfusedDotComHelp · 21/04/2025 07:00

That's fine, you do you.

I've found it and want to read it.

That’s exactly why there are topics! Those who want to read a certain topic can and those who don’t can hide the topic. I don’t want to read about the Royals, so I can hide the topic. After a pregnancy loss, I have hidden conception and pregnancy topics.

Otherwise what is the point of having topics? You might as well get everyone to post on AIBU. I believe in biological sex, but I find that a lot of the posts discussing this descend into talk of sexual assault. There are many that want to avoid this so hide the topic.

There is no need to silence people, just let people post of the appropriate board and they everyone can decide whether to read or hide the topic.

Valeriekat · 21/04/2025 07:15

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

They may however stop you getting that board position!

GeorgeMichaelsCat · 21/04/2025 07:03

HermioneWeasley · 20/04/2025 18:25

They weren’t hidden but they were confined to the feminism board and any attempt to raise the ire Sue in Chat or AIBU was moved to the topic.

Thank goodness. Reminds me of when people posted about Brexit in AIBU but used a thread title that made you think it was a genuine post. Highly annoying.

ImConfusedDotComHelp · 21/04/2025 07:00

Boredlass · 21/04/2025 06:51

It’s a very hostile place and I’ve hidden it as well. I want no part in it

That's fine, you do you.

I've found it and want to read it.

OP posts:
Valeriekat · 21/04/2025 07:00

Hufflemuff · 20/04/2025 18:49

Are they? Because I keep seeing them and it's getting fucking boring... just the same sweeping statements and sentiments repeated. If you don't want to call someone "she" then don't... If you want to refuse to go somewhere because they have a gender neutral policy then fucking don't go there!

Tbh I'd actually welcome seeing some pro-trans posts, just to balance it out a bit and see some counter arguements because it's so one sided on here. It's like watching old people sitting and talking to themselves in a care home repeating the same things.

Rant over 🤣🤣🤣

But that is the point, women only spaces were being accesses by men.

Boredlass · 21/04/2025 06:51

MyHeartyCoralSnail · 21/04/2025 03:02

I’m not sure why anyone would find women’s rights and women’s safety dull. I value being able to vote, use maternity care and being able to go for a smear test. Im a strong believer that women should be paid equally to men?

Each to their own of course.

It’s a very hostile place and I’ve hidden it as well. I want no part in it

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 06:42

ruethewhirl · 21/04/2025 06:33

Kind of ironic that you’re accusing someone of hatred given the tone of your posts on this thread. You’re coming across like you hate anyone who doesn’t think what you think.

Second tone-policing post in this thread. The 'women must be quiet and speak with a soft voice, never get angry, be uppity or assertive or else it's hatred' posters out in force.

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 06:38

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Trans women are not a threat to....your maternity care/rights or your ability to get a smear test so why are you bleating on about them?

They are if we are not allowed to ask for a female only doctor, as has been the case.

ruethewhirl · 21/04/2025 06:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Kind of ironic that you’re accusing someone of hatred given the tone of your posts on this thread. You’re coming across like you hate anyone who doesn’t think what you think.

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 06:25

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

None of them are 'misogynistic' insults. They are feminist terms women use when discussing womens rights. Sorry if the truth of those terms hurts you.

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 06:19

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Bumpitybumper · 21/04/2025 06:17

MN is one of the few platforms that allow women to discuss this issue openly and without fear of being cancelled. For so long the #nodebate TRAs ran the show and nearly brought MN down in the process. They don't want a debate because they know that their arguments just don't stand up to scrutiny and the more the issue is illuminated the more people realise that this isn't just about women being unkind to trans people. It is about a inherently vulnerable group fighting for their own rights There are so many scenarios where gender ideology causes problems but I still see on Social Media that lots of women think that it's all about women not wanting to share toilets.

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 06:15

Anewdawnanewname · 20/04/2025 21:17

Honestly, I don’t know why you’re tagging me in this, but I can’t make head nor tail of what you’re asking, and it’s posts like this that makes me want to ignore these threads with the tone of “you’ll maybe be interested in this as it’s a men’s rights issue.” It’s not the issue that’s the problem for me, it’s the tone of the posts.

Edited

Oh so we are back to tone-policing women again are we? Damn those 'angry women' who should always speak in a soft meet voice and never be assertive or uppity.

I doubt you'd go to the 'Black mumsnetters' (yes it exists on here) section and tone-police black people for fighting for their rights.

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 06:10

Suzuki76 · 20/04/2025 20:23

Interesting then that people feel the need to hide the true motivation behind starting the thread to get people to read it.

E.g "AIBU to think HR should apologise" and it's not the OP's HR department but that of some random GC woman who has already been discussed to death.

Edited

Wouldn't it be lovely to not have to discuss womens rights to death.

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 06:06

SolielMoonSky · 20/04/2025 20:20

“The rest of the UK”? The republic isn’t in the UK.

The point is there really doesn’t need to be thread after thread reiterated the same thing over and over and over.
It should be mostly confined to the appropriate board because it’s clogging up Actives, getting shoe horned into unrelated threads and has become a total pita. It’s is far, far from being hidden away.
It will die down eventually anyway but some posters will still be determined to keep starting threads in AIBU/ chat/ relationships/ mental health etc and it’s a nuisance. It’s just looking for arguments because they’re sick of agreeing with each other on the feminist board.

She didn't say it was.

It is not about "arguing with each other", it's about trying to spread awareness to others who are not aware of the issues. To get as many people knowing and participating in the discussions as possible.

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 05:59

SolielMoonSky · 20/04/2025 19:13

I’m in the ROI. There’s a limit to how much I need to know about this Supreme Court thing because it doesn’t affect me. It doesn’t change anything here. I don’t need to read every single thread relating to it and there are loads atm.

Womens rights and struggles are universal. Are you saying you don't care about women under the Talibanic Afghanistan, because you don't live in Afghanistan?

FlakyCritic · 21/04/2025 05:53

Hufflemuff · 20/04/2025 18:49

Are they? Because I keep seeing them and it's getting fucking boring... just the same sweeping statements and sentiments repeated. If you don't want to call someone "she" then don't... If you want to refuse to go somewhere because they have a gender neutral policy then fucking don't go there!

Tbh I'd actually welcome seeing some pro-trans posts, just to balance it out a bit and see some counter arguements because it's so one sided on here. It's like watching old people sitting and talking to themselves in a care home repeating the same things.

Rant over 🤣🤣🤣

The world has been full of pro-trans for years which has been beyond 'fucking boring'. You can't handle 3 days of feminism?

Telling women to WITHDRAW FROM PARTICIPATING IN SOCIETY, rather than fight for our rights, is not the win you think it is.