Of course women will be safer

You do know that there is still a vast difference between men and women who identify as men?

I’m not sure who has insisted that we ‘want’ women who have tried to appear male in the ladies but they are entitled to be there because they are female.

You triumphantly repeat your totally imagined scenario that a man will claim to be a ‘transman’ in order to invade a women’s space without sanction but

a) there is literally no evidence of this ever happening and

b) if it had happened, all the woman would have to do is report it to the facility owner and they would be able to investigate, see that it was a man and take appropriate action.

This argument is on a par with ‘some people are racist and can’t recognise a woman when they see one so we must let all men into women’s spaces’ .

Totally scraping the barrel with that one.

I know what misogynior is - pretty sure saying black women look like men is part of it

No idea what it has to do with this ruling though

Probably not - but the material point is, something can actually be done about it that isn’t demonising complainants. That is a HUGE improvement on the previous system and culture

No what? Are you refuting the fact that 98% of sexual crimes are committed by men?

So if the answer to give free rein to toilets and changing rooms to anyone who fancies being there? There is no perfect solution - but there is a close-to-perfect, immutable solution. And that is to segregate by sex

Do you think this is a new problem?

Men have been going in toilets for years claiming to belong there and anyone concerned hasn’t been able to prove it. We also couldn’t complain about it. Now, we still can’t prove it but at least we can complain.

It's a thread about women's rights and women's safety. Stop trying to make it all about trans. It's not.

Until recently the police had no problem identifying what a woman was and telling us apart from men. Transwomen should be searched by a man. Transwomen should not search women (as British Transport Police were allowings trans identified men to do until this ruling).

When that lady was raped by a transwoman on a female only ward the NHS tried to say the rape didn't happen because by law, only men can race and there were no men on the ward because trans women are women.

It took a bloody long time for that lady to get any sort of acknowledgement of what happened to her.

In law, only men can rape.

There are transwomen in women's prisons convicted of sex offences who once again have raped female inmates.

Except if trans women are women it can't be rape because only men can commit the act of rape.

These women in these scenarios couldn't object to a man being in their space, because trans women have been enshrined as some sort of sub set of women when they are in fact men.

This means that they have had limited access to any sort of legal redress. That the perpetrators of these crimes have been off the hook. Crimes that should not have been committed in the first place if men and women were kept separately.

In practice it might not stop predators being predators but it will give additional protections to womens only spaces, and the right to legal redress when crimes do occur.

It's the same as saying men don't have a big neon sign saying wife beater on their head so how would anyone know, how would laws be enacted upon if a man does suddenly become a wife beater, men are allowed to have wives.

The ruling gives women the right to object where there is the perception of a single sex space becoming multi-sex space when it shouldn't without being labelled as a bigot or perpetuating hate crime.

In the case of nurse Sandy Peggie I hope this now means that she will no longer be able to be painted as a bully for waiting outside of the changing rooms for not wanting to undress in front of a man who in a tribunal court stated sex was a nebulous dog whistle and proceeded to take detailed notes of every perceived microagression from SP simply because she realised he was a man and did not want to get dressed with men.

So the law as it has now been clarified offers additional protections to women who may, or have already found themselves in compromising, unsafe and oppressive circumstances.

Third spaces are the answer to everything tbh. Noone should feel threatened ever!

They do it because they are racists, not because they truly believe that Michelle O and Serena Williams are actually men. We can stand up to racists without having to allow men into our spaces

Untrue and lazy.
Don't inform yourself then.
I see you.

Your point is what exactly?

Please tell me you are not suggesting that because some people have allegedly temporarily mistaken a black woman for a man that we should let any man who wants into female only spaces??

But it's not just crossing that Rubicon to attacks is it, it's just being able to feel safe without pervy eyes

Yes, trans activists compare black women to men who wish they were women constantly. You clearly haven’t paid any attention to this at all. There are many comments to that effect even on this site.

BTW, nothing in your comment bears any relevance at all to my point. Just in case I didn’t explain it clearly enough for you.

Black women exist.

Racists exist.

Men who wish they were women do not belong in women’s spaces. HTH 😁

Nobody's arguing that black women are like men.

If you read up on the history of feminism, womanism, and racism, you'll see that black women are judged differently historically in white-dominated or white supremacist societies.

Ignorance about women's history and the particular challenges black women have faced isn't a good look in people who want to act as champions and protectors of womanhood.

How do you not know this? Or is it distraction tactics? Is the white supremacy/gender critical nexus really A Thing? I hope not but the ignorance and reversals here suggest otherwise.

This again 😴 how many more of these do we have to see, just add to another thread we don’t need more of the same

The only people I have seen trying to argue that black women are like men are trans activists.

The existence (or not) or other racists is not relevant to the main point of my comment which you conveniently ignored.

Racists existing still doesn’t mean that men should be allowed into women’s spaces. Your argument is null.

Where did I say that?

There were also no fictional racists calling two well-known Black women men and trans, they were very real and was talked about.

Says a lot about you to dare act as if it is untrue and not completely surprised by comments like yours.

I found it a useful descriptor when discussing patriarchy. I hadn't expected this.

Yes I agree with that. On another thread there was a kind of squaring off to the word no.

Men, and some of their allies, do not like women saying no and get angrier.

The war is very far from won. And as I saw a poster on another thread note, this is like when a woman leaves a DV relationship, thats the most dangerous time because the narcissistic abuser is now angered and trying to reassert his control.

The aggressive misogynist TRAs haven't been told no in years. They're not used to it and they're not going to take it well.

But this had to happen, there's no way to gain back the rights which were stolen from us, without making the thieves angry. We could really do with some strong political leadership, because attempts to placate or play both sides will just be seen by the screaming violent incels as a green light. Though I'm not madly hopeful there.

Transwomen who've had genital surgery aren't necessarily safe to be around - 'Sarah Jane' Baker being an obvious example.

But also I don't think we should ever make having genital surgery any kind of pass because it may encourage more transpeople to have that surgery. Which I would never want anyone to feel they should do because it's completely barbaric, causes infertility and incontinence and sometimes lifelong ill health. I don't want anyone to go through what some transpeople have been through when they've believed the lies that it is possible to form the opposite sex genitals by surgery. What has been done to some transpeople by surgeons should be a crime.

There is no such thing as a “cisman”. Men are male and women are female. That’s all. You can use your fringe ideological jargon if you wish, but don’t be surprised if the average person is turned off by it.