Of course women will be safer

Annoyingly this link won’t load for me and it won’t load when I google it either! I will keep trying. But given you concede trans people aren’t at a higher risk of harm than women, is there then really a good reason for them to be in our spaces?

It’s SUCH a simple ask to ask that the law be observed in the way it was always supposed to be. The ruling is not anything new it’s a clarification that shows men should NEVER have been using women’s spaces in the first place. It was NEVER their place. And rather than say “Oh shit sorry my bad” they are throwing epic tantrums and blaming women who only ever stood idly by either silent, bemused or, if they did have the bravery to speak up, ostracised.

An analogy… a man parking where he shouldn’t for 10 years whilst a woman who IS entitled to park there says “You're not supposed to park there, it’s my space”. and him saying “STFU I’ll park where I want” - then one day he gets 10 years of tickets and shouts at the woman “See what you FUCKING did! I’ve now got fines and have to find somewhere else to park thanks to you! Bitch!”. And everyone being concerned about where he’s going to park now and chastising the woman for being happy about getting her parking space back.

@JandamiHash I said “Trans women are more likely to be victims of violence and harassment” - my phrasing is off, because I definitely did not mean that they are more likely than women to be victims of violence and harassment (we clearly disagree but we’re not that wildly different in our views). Increasingly likely, if that helps.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/10/06/uk-government-hate-crimes-lgbtq-trans-rishi-sunak/

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/10/11/new-lgbtq-hate-crime-figures-in-england-and-wales-deeply-worrying/

Both articles provide links to (accessible) data that show the year on year trends. A 2% drop in the last year isn’t significant enough for me to suggest that trans people are at any decreased risk, giving the significant increase in hate crimes over the last decade or so.

I think you’ll find that letting any man who chooses into spaces where women are vulnerable definitely increases male violence. There are many incidents of male violence against women mentioned in this very thread. These incidents were often entirely preventable and totally facilitated by ‘trans inclusive’ policies.

There are far more violent criminals who identify as women than ‘trans’ victims.

What makes a 'transwoman' a class of woman? Is anyone prepared to answer that?

We’re not ‘in-fighting’.

Women are asking for single sex spaces. Women are together on this, for the most part. The Supreme Court definition of women that is.

Yes, men. Which is what TW are. Because they can’t infiltrate our spaces anymore. It’s really that simple. Nobody is expecting an end to VAWG. Nobody. But we should always mitigate risk. Aka become safer.

Your opinion is TW are women. Fine - like I say I’m not that anal about evidence that I want a peer reviewed academic paper for every sentence made…but you also said that transwomen are at greater risk of harm than women. I would expect evidence for that, that goes way beyond being an opinion

Do you feel up to sharing why you believe TW are women and not men? I’ve asked so many people and have only ever been ignored which is a shame because it’s the cornerstone of the trans ideology so you’d think it would be a straightforward answer.

I haven’t seen anything that indicates you’ve addressed the evidence given, other than saying you can’t get past a paywall. So now you HAVE been given evidence that TW commit violent crimes at a higher rate than men who don’t identify as women, do you understand why OP is saying women are now safer?

Sigh.

Transwomen are men. They're not women.

Transwomen offend at at least the same rate as other men.

There are no recorded instances of any transwoman ever being harmed by a man in men's single sex spaces.

It's like the ploppers are not even trying at this point.

Edited for autocarrot

Safer from whom? Men? Women are no safer from male violence. (And neither are trans women) Because none of this actually addresses male violence. Keep the women in-fighting, so the men can carry on as they were.

You can't make evidence based decisions and treat everyone fairly if you don't acknowledge that a subgroup of men are a subgroup of men. They're not a different category of people with a different risk profile to other men, why would they be?

ps I knew you’d jump on me making the above statements without evidence. Obviously intentionally done. Everyone else is allowed to do it though if it’s an argument you support!

Your comprehension is very poor. I have explicitly stated why I haven’t backed up my claims with evidence. I have acknowledged (three times now) that my statement “trans women aren’t men” is opinion. I made it clear within 20 minutes of making the statement that it was opinion. I have addressed two of the three pieces of “evidence” that were given to me. And the purpose of asking for and using the evidence is to support everything I have just said about making evidence based decisions, about treating everyone - women and trans women - fairly, and having safeguarding policy where applicable to do so.

Yes their safety matters - but no law change has been made. Definitions have just been clarified. So really all is as it was before this self ID nonsense became mainstream. Nothing has been taken off them. And as a PP said, men using men’s facilities and women using women’s isn’t some ancient myth - it’s in living memory. We’ve known how to do it before and we can all do it again. It’s not hard.

Like I say nobody is stopping trans people from having discussions about how to keep safe. But from where I’m sitting, they don’t want to discuss that - TRAs (not all TW of course) just want to colonise women’s spaces and put no effort into creating their own.

People feel the way they do about single sex spaces because we’ve seen with our own eyes the effects on women when we give Carte Blanche access to our spaces to men. They behave like men. Get trample on us, rape us, harm us and abuse us. For a group of people who claim to be women, they behave very man-like.

It does if you’re a man. If a trans person isn’t a man or a woman what are they?

So you think your view, based on nothin at all, is acceptable but the rest of us have to provide evidence for our claims and do the hard work for you?

Also I answered that question for you. I even gave a number and 2 links.

Now pleased show us evidence that transwomen aren’t men. Or, because I’m actually really not that anal about evidence, share your reasoning.

So just so I understand correctly, your assertions that transwomen are not men are based on...well that just being your view. But other posters statements about risk, which they have backed up with evidence, are cutting no ice because the statistics are behind a paywall that you don't want to have to put into archive.ph? I mean, that doesn't seem very even to me. Is it the HM prison stats you're looking for? I've got a pic of those

Did you? I haven’t seen any evidence provided that transwomen are women I’d be amazed if you did give it considering the Supreme Court couldn’t even come to that conclusion. Have you seen evidence that they haven’t?

People HAVE given you links - you just got so deep and decided you couldn’t be arsed going further. How is that anyone’s fault but your own?

People are content making claims without easily accessible demonstrable evidence?!

Oh the irony 🤣 where’s your evidence transwomen aren’t men?

Also - people have given you links.

The reality is that trans inclusive policy has not led to increased crime in public spaces

It was never a trans inclusive policy. It’s just trans people misinterpreted it as belonging to them. Nevertheless - are you saying that the many crimes, most of which are violent and sexual, perpetrated by TW didn’t happen? Why else would you say crimes on public spaces haven’t increased? They have.

Trans women are more likely to be victims of violence and harassment

So now I’m going to challenge you to prove this based of evidence. I hope you aren’t content making claims without easily accessible demonstrable evidence!!

The evidence is there, go find it

To use YOUR words if someone is making claims it is up the them to produce the evidence, why should I have to go and dig it out?

the damage that’s being done to the trans population through some of the rhetoric and discussion being spouted on the topic is dangers and minimising the experiences of one group over another.

Then trans people can address it. Nobody is stopping them. Women don’t have to sort out everybody’s problems you know.

For the record, I do agree with this (while also acknowledging, for anyone who wants to come at me (!), that of course for some people there are issues with public spaces and also perceived vs actual safety, and all of that is really important). But I am also really aware and conscious that many trans women are heavily impacted by the recent decision, that their own safety matters too, and informed discussions are so important. Without all the emotive rhetoric. Which is really hard to do, because for many people this is a personal and emotional issue. My own opinions are also not black and white and I genuinely am interested in discussion from both sides. I just think it’s important to really break down why people feel the way they do, use evidence where we have it, and let that aid discussion.

Well yes. Of course they are men. And men commit 98% of all sex crime. If you can prove there is any difference in how much risk this specific group of men pose to women than other men, by all means do so.

“Trans women are trans women” does not mean they’re not also men.
Wanting to be a woman doesn’t make you one, but it doesn’t make you not a man either.

I am very happy to say that my view is that trans women are trans women. Based on this, I rephrased my question to state: Alright, if you want to say that trans women are men - of the 0.5% of trans people in the UK, how many of the 99% of male offenders (previously quoted by someone else) identify as trans women?

Ah I thought you meant in general rather than a direct reference to that poster. But yea anyone thinking that it’s just about toilets IS coming from a place of privilege. The privilege being that the bigger issues never crossed their mind because they don’t lead that kind of life